looking for load confirmation

[DeanC]

The calm before the storm....

[Stradawhovious]

[Pat Cannon]

I've wondered if moonclip shooters ever roll crimp their cartridges.

[EJSG19]

Its quiet in here. Almost too quiet...

:shudder:

[Stradawhovious]

Its quiet in here. Almost too quiet...

:shudder:

Here ya go. Be sure to turn your speakers way up!



Better?

[EJSG19]

I thought the scary suspense music from Jaws might be more appropriate.

[Stradawhovious]

I thought the scary suspense music from Jaws might be more appropriate.

Sorry.

[EJSG19]

Oh yeah, now we've got the right atmosphere. Now to get this "common knowledge" situation straightened out.

[bensdad]

I'm too scared to get in on this thread, and too fascinated not to. Maybe someone should go check on Sam. He shoulda been here by now.

[Seismic Sam]

Uhhhh... Gee, I don't feel like giving birth to a cow today. Sorry guys!!

It IS common knowledge that cast lead bullets slide down the barrel with less friction than jacketed bullets, so for the exact same powder and bullet weight (AND shape!!) the pressures should be lower for cast lead bullets. This doesn't necessarily translate into higher velocity because of less friction, but the part about the pressures is conventional wisdom. Thge original Colt SA's from the late 1800's were NOT very strong compared to today's guns, so they had to run at lower pressures.

NOW, you may find a jacketed bullet load that has a higher max powder charge than the same shape/weight cast bullet, and the reason for that is that the cast bullet simply won't stand up to those pressures without losing traction on the lands and/or allowing the gas to blow by. That's mostly why they sell gas checks for cast lead bullets, so that this doesn't happen. So even though there may be jacketed loads that are significantly hotter than cast bullet loads, that doesn't necessarily mean that using a jacketed bullet max load with a cast bullet will get you into deep trouble, unless you lead up the barrel so much that you reduce the bore diameter.

As a matter of fact, that was the exact problem I had with my Smith 500 with plated bullets, and while I could shoot them with heavy powder charges like jacketed bullets, all I got was absolutely shytty consistency that you could actually FEEL, with one plated load being light and the next being the usual azz-kick that you should get from a heavy 500 Smith load. Now, a Smith 500 is pretty much indestructible (the original cylinder design was tested to DESTRUCTION @ over 100,000 PSI before they ever built the rest of the gun..) so I wasn't worried too much.

I would suspect with most other MODERN guns, the same thing would happen, and if you ran a cast bullet at jacketed powder charge levels, you would get the same krappy and spotty performance, but there's a big difference between that and a kaboom. In addition, most lead bullets are a fairly hard alloy, so apart from black powder and SASS shooting you won't find soft lead bullets designed for any hot calibers anyway.

[HAMnSIGS]

Uhhhh... Gee, I don't feel like giving birth to a cow today. Sorry guys!!

It IS common knowledge that cast lead bullets slide down the barrel with less friction than jacketed bullets, so for the exact same powder and bullet weight (AND shape!!) the pressures should be lower for cast lead bullets. This doesn't necessarily translate into higher velocity because of less friction, but the part about the pressures is conventional wisdom.

NOW, you may find a jacketed bullet load that has a higher max powder charge than the same shape/weight cast bullet, and the reason for that is that the cast bullet simply won't stand up to those pressures without losing traction on the lands and/or allowing the gas to blow by. That's mostly why they sell gas checks for cast lead bullets, so that this doesn't happen. So even though there may be jacketed loads that are significantly hotter than cast bullet loads, that doesn't necessarily mean that using a jacketed bullet max load with a cast bullet will get you into deep trouble, unless you lead up the barrel so much that you reduce the bore diameter.

As a matter of fact, that was the exact problem I had with my Smith 500 with plated bullets, and while I could shoot them with heavy powder charges like jacketed bullets, all I got was absolutely shytty consistency that you could actually FEEL, with one plated load being light and the next being the usual azz-kick that you should get from a heavy 500 Smith load. Now, a Smith 500 is pretty much indestructible (the original cylinder design was tested to DESTRUCTION @ over 100,000 PSI before they ever built the rest of the gun..) so I wasn't worried too much.

I would suspect with most other MODERN guns, the same thing would happen, and if you ran a cast bullet at jacketed powder charge levels, you would get the same krappy and spotty performance, but there's a big difference between that and a kaboom. In addition, most lead bullets are a fairly hard alloy, so apart from black powder and SASS shooting you won't find soft lead bullets designed for any hot calibers anyway.

Thank you for going into more detail than I cared too...
More common knowledge is I don't care to get real involved in posts as I have a wildcats to feed, cases to form and necks to thin out and would much rather be loading.

SS, What speed can you push lino with that 500 ? and still have a bullet at the target hehe

Be Safe!
-Mike

[Seismic Sam]

Never shot anything but plated and cast with my 500, and I think you probably know that. (Linotype?? Geez, you'd have to be an old phart like me to even know what linotype was.) The Smith 500 is simply not a cast bullet gun. You can push plated bullets (and the Ranier's hold together better that the Berry's) to a little over 1400, and then your velocity SD goes to hell quickly. I've had 5 shot strings with an extreme velocity spread of 250 FPS. (BARF!!!) The Hornady factory load with the 350 grain XTP runs 1900 FPS (@2960 ft-lbs!!), and you can push a Speer 325 to 2000 and a 300 grain Gold Dot to 2100.

[HAMnSIGS]

Never shot anything but plated and cast with my 500, and I think you probably know that. (Linotype?? Geez, you'd have to be an old phart like me to even know what linotype was.) The Smith 500 is simply not a cast bullet gun. You can push plated bullets (and the Ranier's hold together better that the Berry's) to a little over 1400, and then your velocity SD goes to hell quickly. I've had 5 shot strings with an extreme velocity spread of 250 FPS. (BARF!!!) The Hornady factory load with the 350 grain XTP runs 1900 FPS (@2960 ft-lbs!!), and you can push a Speer 325 to 2000 and a 300 grain Gold Dot to 2100.

Thanks for the info, I was curious to see if the larger bore is capable of a increased velocity before loss of traction so to speak. I have not read much regarding the 500 with cast and it does interest me.
Linotype is safe and sound next to me and I will snatch anymore I can when I can LOL

To the O.P. Thanks for the post and the chance for discussion

Be Safe
-Mike

[Seismic Sam]

Uh, Mike??? Just where in hell can you find linotype in the year 2010, or were you joking about that?? Or are you talking about the metal they use these days to cast the cylindrical print segmets that go on the rotary newspaper print heads??

Oh, the powder du jour for the 500 is Lil' Gun and large rifle primers, which are now the de facto standard for the 500. 500 cases that were designed for magnum pistol primers can simply be reamed out to rifle depth, and you probably already have that reamer anyway.

And for the rest of you, Mike's remarks about wildcatting, case forming, and neck thinning make him a real, bona-fide ringer with a post count of only 5. Wildcatters are a step beyond where even I go, and make up their own cartridge designs from others. That means you have to have dies made up, and order custom rifle barrels AND specify what you want the chamber dimensions to be, and a lot of other stuff. Then the fun begins, because you have to work up your own loads from scratch with little or no published data, and figure out how think the neck has to be for the proper bullet tension, and tolerances for the case relative to the chamber so the case can expand enough to let go of the bullet, and it just goes on and on, and you're pretty much on your own for the whole thing.

And BTW, Mike, by case neck thinning, do you mean inside reaming of the case neck while it's in the die?? I have done outside neck turning, and it was pretty obvious from having to pick a stop point on the neck of the case that simply running the reamer all the way down the inside of the neck was a better way to go. And just what kind of wildcats are you shooting, anyway??

[HAMnSIGS]

Oh yeah, now we've got the right atmosphere. Now to get this "common knowledge" situation straightened out.

Well one must be very Cautious when using "Common Knowledge" sheet'll crawl up and bite in the BooBoo!!