Reloading .357 Sig

[Rodentman]

...I loaded 7 in the mag, fired 6 and then checked the OAL of the last one. It was 1.14 to start and ended up being about 1.125...

It doesn't sound like your bullets are seated very well. Does a single whack or so from a kinetic puller let the bullet go? Over crimping can result in bad bullet retention.

A single whack will pull the bullet out some. That's how I pulled out the ones I had pushed in to .110 or so. I didn't want to fire them at that OAL.

[rugersol]

Neck measures about the same on the factory and reload, .378, but the factory rounds LOOK better, like the neck is more even. I have the Dillon sizer kissing the shellholder. Also, I haven't been using any neck lube. I have some Imperial dry neck lube but I was afraid it would cause greater bullet slip. Should I use it?

I don't have another sizing die. I bought the Dillons as they were highly recommended over the Lee.

I kinda wondered about that with the pic posted with the 7.62.

If yer neck ain't even ... and there ain't much there to start with ... that's probly yer problem.

Sounds like it's buckling.

Lube should help ... maybe jest a tiny bit on yer fingertip and smear the neck outside.

At this point, I'm thinking yer fired brass needs more TLC.

Any chance of tryin' some of that virgin starline? At least that way, we can determine if yer dies are causing the problem.

I'm still thinkin' that shoulder needs a bump ... fer what I'm thinkin', that'd be a possible cause fer the buckling. Go ahead and run the die all the way down ... give it an extra 1/16 turn, down. Any chance any other dies are bottoming out, and the sizer's not gettin' all the way down? I know it should be impossible to set it so, otherwise ... jest tryin' to eliminate the easy stuff.

Pics'd be great ... particularly with the light such that we can see where it's buckling.

Ya got a case-gauge fer the completed round? Yer reload drops into the bbl, right? I'm guessin' yer chamber's a bit loose. What's the make?

I'll bet the starline loads/crimps fine.

[rugersol]

I took 'nother look at that pic ... yer not roll-crimping, are you?

Yer seat die body should only be lightly taper crimping.

Hmmm ... check the starline before/after the seat die to see if that's when the neck buckles.

[Rodentman]

I ran the spent brass, some from my factory ammo, and some from Gearguy, thru the GRX push thru die, then lightly lubed and thru the Dillon sizer. Then seat and crimp. I crimped some with the Lee FCD and some with the Dillon crimper which I assume is taper.

Tomorrow I will screw the Dillon sizer down a bit, and try some virgin Starline. I will run a few thru the sizer and some not. Will post photos and see if the die is causing an issue. Will check after the seating process as well.

I appreciate the advice of everyone!

[gyrfalcon]

A single whack will pull the bullet out some. That's how I pulled out the ones I had pushed in to .110 or so. I didn't want to fire them at that OAL.

Maybe you're a lot stronger than me, but generally my fist, second, and third whacks really don't move the bullet any if I have a good crimp. It seems like your dies might not be working right when they re-size the cartridge and neck like others have suggested.

[Rodentman]

Yeah, actually I tried NOT to whack the puller too hard since I didn't really want to pull the bullet all the way out of the case, just a couple hundredths. Once or twice I determined that I had missed charging a case, and had seated the bullet. I forget which caliber it was, but man it sure took a lot of effort to pull that bullet. These .357's are clearly not being held tight enough.

Tomorrow I will try some new brass and both the Sierra and MT bullets, with and w/o resizing and see what I get. FWIW I don't have a case gauge, I have been using the bbl. It's a SIG 229.

[rugersol]

Yeah, actually I tried NOT to whack the puller too hard since I didn't really want to pull the bullet all the way out of the case, just a couple hundredths. Once or twice I determined that I had missed charging a case, and had seated the bullet. I forget which caliber it was, but man it sure took a lot of effort to pull that bullet. These .357's are clearly not being held tight enough.

Tomorrow I will try some new brass and both the Sierra and MT bullets, with and w/o resizing and see what I get. FWIW I don't have a case gauge, I have been using the bbl. It's a SIG 229.

I wouldn't expect a Sig chamber to be particularly loose.

Werst case, that's an easy fix ... IIRC, a "drop-in" really does drop in.

But we ain't there, yet.

When ya run 'em tomorrow, leave the FCD turnt down, but back out the crimp so it don't engage at all. That shouldn't be the problem, but we should jest as well make sure.

[Rodentman]

Here are the results of my sample reloads. I didn a D&C on all the Dillon dies, noting nothing that would impair their action. I removed the decapping rod since the brass had already been decapped or was new. I deburred and chamfered all the new brass. I reloaded 11.5g of AA7 with CCI SP primers, but that's irrelevant to this test. I reloaded 5 of each in these 6 scenarios:

1. New Starline brass, no sizing or belling. MT Gold 130g bullets. Result: GOOD! Cannot push bullets into case. Got sore thumb. I didn't crimp 4 of them. I used the Dillon crimper on 1. Still cannot push into case.

2. Same as #1 but used Sierra 8125 130g bullets. Same result.

3. Previously fired brass. Resized with 40 S&W Lee die and Dillon sizer. MTG bullets. Can push into case. Best with no crimp. Lee FCD no help.

4. Same as above with Sierra bullets. Can push but took some more effort than #3. Best result with Dillon crimper.

5. New brass run thru resizers. Cannot push bullet with or w/o crimp.

6. Same as #5 with Sierra bullets. Same result.

Conclusion to this unscientific study: Best not to bell case. The scenarios where I was able to push back the bullets took much more effort than my previous runs where I had belled the case, even very slightly. Ram felt more pressure when seating bullets in this test without the belling.

Well, looks like I can buy a whole craphouse of new Starline brass and use it once, but prefer not to do that.

I feel pretty confident with the used brass and Sierra 8125's. I ordered a bunch of those. I'm willing to pop for a Lee dieset so I'll have another sizer if that is an issue. Odd that the new brass worked fine totally virgin and after running thru the Dillon sizer, but the used brass didn't fare as well.

I think I'm making progress. I won't bell the cases. I will try another sizer. I will watch the crimper.

[gyrfalcon]

Previously fired brass. Resized with 40 S&W Lee die and Dillon sizer. ...

Why are you resizing with a Lee .40S&W die? Why not use a Lee 90270 .357sig full length resizing die?

[Rodentman]

I was using the .40 die since it is carbide and thought it would reduce the need for lube on the neck sizing. I since AM using lube on the neck sizing and just ordered the Lee .357 sig dieset. Will try that. And can try not sizing in the .40 die and just use the .357 Dillon die with lube. I'll add a few of those to my testing. Maybe the use of the 2 sizing dies is creating an issue.

[rugersol]

Odd that the new brass worked fine totally virgin and after running thru the Dillon sizer, but the used brass didn't fare as well.

No ... it's not.

I'll bet the starline loads/crimps fine.

I 'spose there's a 0.0000001% possibility, expanding the case, is causing yer problems. Certainly, .357 Sig is not a case ya wanna go nuts, expanding ... jest 'nuff so the bullet sets on top ... maybe sinks down 0.5mm.

That your virgin starline worked fine, even through the dies (although I'm not 100% sure exactly which ones, 'er at which settings ya used), tells me that yer dies are fine. They may not be 'nuff to apply the proper TLC fer yer fired brass (so ordering the Lee set is still a good idea) ... but they weren't causing the problem.

The problem's as I suspected ... yer fired brass is expanding too much ... fer the dies ya have ... to properly resize ... at least, as they're set, now (that's not to say they can be set 'nother way to werk good ... jest not ruling 'em out, entirely).

Question ... did ya turn down yer sizing die?

One other thing ... yer Lee .357 Sig is a "collet" die? The bottom pushes up into the rest of the die body? Are you sure you've set this die correctly? That should fix your problem. That die needs to be set low enough, so that on a full stroke, the bottom is pushed up far enough to activate the collet. I wouldn't expect any adjustment. If you didn't have the die set low enough, not only would it not engage enough, it would not engage the part of the neck, we need it to. I wouldn't call that an adjustment ... simply not set properly. Maybe run a batch of fired brass through? ... turn down the collet die 1/4 turn after each one ... set 'em in a tray, in order as they come out ... inspect each one. I don't know if it's possible to set a Lee collet die "too low" ... I'd guess you'd notice some considerable force required fer a full-stroke, and probly lose yer nerve, 'fore then.

Anyhow, with as short as that neck is, I'm kinda surprised the collet die's not fixing it.

[rugersol]

Well I cranked the FCD down to the shellholder. Yes I raised the ram first. Then I gave it 3/4 turn instead of the suggested 1/2 turn. Got about as much crimp as I'd care to. Still could push the bullets in from 1.14 to 1.12 and even 1 went in to 1.11.

Ok ... didn't see this 'fore.

It's yer press ... 'n yer die ... but if the part of the die (body) that don't move, ain't hittin' the shellplate yet, I'd keep goin'.

The problem isn't that the collet die ain't squeezin' 'nuff at the case mouth ... that's simply not a concern (not now it ain't, anyhow).

The problem's that it ain't squeezin' 'nuff BELOW the case mouth ... closer to the shoulder.

[Seismic Sam]

Is your Dillon size die steel or carbide? Either way you have to rub a little imperial size wax over the WHOLE case body. Sounds like not enough lube and/or you size die isn't making good, hard contact with the shell plate at the top of the ram stroke. You want to have the size die set so there is a noticable BUMP as the ram goes over top dead center on the press stroke.

[Rodentman]

Sam, I didn't know that. I always had set my sizing dies so they would be a hair OFF the shellholder. You say there should be contact and a bump as I cam over, if I understand correctly. I will try that. It seems that there is an issue with the sizer, at least with the way I have set it. I DO use the Imperial wax even tho the Dillon sizer is carbide.

Will test some more tonight and advise.

[Rodentman]

I loaded up 8 more, running them thru the Dillon sizer. I did 4 with the die just off the shellholder and 4 with the die screwed down a bit more. Same result, which is no bullet setback! I now think the variable was the use of the 2 sizing dies instead of just the Dillon. Have better luck with just the Dillon. Go figure. Anyway, I didn't flare the cases and I didn't crimp them either. That seems to work for me. I'll test these at the range and see if there is any setback. Maybe I'll cycle them thru the pistol as well w/o firing them.

I thank everyone for their advice. It seems that I am close to feeling confident about reloading this round! I don't think I'll do too many too often since it is time consuming and requires extra attention, but it is fun to take on a challenge and succeed!