Precision Rifle Reloading (Split fromGetting into Reloading)

[Pinnacle]

But the best ammo that I have ever loaded was on the Rock Chucker.

True that, slow and consistant.

And Mac, I finally broke down and got a digital scale, that should speed things up, and yes I'm lusting for your rcbs ron propiel set it forget'n forget it powder dispenser.

I loaded some 6.5x55mm Swede on ye old rock chucker - BUT i neck turned the brass - and did all of the tricks - 120gr NBT using H4831 5 shots - 0.33" group

[mnglocker]

I loaded some 6.5x55mm Swede on ye old rock chucker - BUT i neck turned the brass - and did all of the tricks - 120gr NBT using H4831 5 shots - 0.33" group

How many yards out?

I know I could drill that kind of group at 7

[hammAR]

But the best ammo that I have ever loaded was on the Rock Chucker

I loaded some 6.5x55mm Swede on ye old rock chucker - BUT i neck turned the brass - and did all of the tricks - 120gr NBT using H4831 5 shots - 0.33" group

Now you are starting to approach a discussion regarding precision loading and shooting, which should be a different thread. Then we can discuss things like Corealus effect.......

I do not think that pistol mass loading and precision loading should be mixed in the same thread, in fact this thread should be remamed "Getting into Pistol Reloading".........In pistol shooting you are hoping for MOPP as opposed to precision rifle shooting which should be sub-MOA as the norm..............(for the uninitiated - MOPP is Minute of Paper Plate)

Average pistol mass reloaders will not use cartrige cases which are hand select and/or fire-formed, weighed, measured, x/Y balanced, and tricked out for uniform performance........let alone do the rest of the "work" required........and yea +1 on the Rock Chucker.........

"Smack the Smiley"....

[Pinnacle]

Precision reloading and pistol reloading are 2 very different things.

HAMMAR you are right

It is almost blasphemy to mix the two. Lets start another thread on that shall we so as not to offend the reloading gods....

[jac714]

I split this off to keep the topics seperate.

[JFettig]

Good idea.

I've been working on some precision loads for my plain jane AR, I've been able to get under 1" out of it without much trouble. I've also got a few groups down to 1/2"

What does it take to get them down to that and keep them there or get them smaller?
These groups were shot with about 20 rounds down the bore, 25.5gr of Win748, Hornady 55gr Hornady V-max at 120 yards(I thought it was 100 until I used someones range finder). The cases were all Lake City, all trimmed to 1.75 with a lee case trimmer, all tumbled, debured as well as primer pockets reamed. Full length sized and seated on my Lee dies as well as run through the factory crimp die. These bullets do not have a canelure on them, how much do I crimp them? How far do I set the bullet out? I've heard of one of those tools to check and see where the lands are but have never seen one.
Right now I have about 40 rounds loaded up with a different powder H335 and 55gr V-max for testing, 5 of each load at 2.24 and 5 at 2.22 all with a moderate crimp. What primers are best for ARs? I am using Winchster WSR currently, would it be better to use CCI BR-4? I am considering switching to this powder because I think I can get higher velocity out of it for bigger prairie dog splats. I'll be testing that too when I test my max load of win 748 against it.

I recently got a chronograph so that will help in load development, now I just need to wait until it warms up and the range opens.

The gun is a DPMS AP4 virtually stock, non free floated, but I have a LMT 2 stage trigger. I also use a custom linear muzzle break which keeps me on target without having to hold the gun too hard(thus causing unwanted movements).


Jon

[Pinnacle]

Jon

Precision Ammunition - the more you put into it - the more you get out of it......

I love this thread already - thanks Jak


I load a lot of 223 on the 650 and here is what I found -

I use the LEE FCD and how I have it adjusted (for bullets with a cannelure) is as tight as I can make it reasonably crimp - this is business ammunition and not play ammunition (there is a difference in our world*)

for bullets that do not have a cannelure - I just gently snug it against the bullet wall. Just enough to begin to indent the bullet jacket. What I have done is pulled a couple dummy cases to check the amount of crimp - you dont want to get carried away - some of the bullets out there have pretty thin jackets and you gont want to disrupt them too much.

As for seating depth and OAL for an AR - I try to keep the rounds as short s I can - I have found that there are a lot of throat variations - DPMS being very short throated - you have to keep the bullets out of the lands and stand em off by at least 0.005" or you will find that you may actually pull bullets and leave a projo in the throat if a loaded round is ejected. Bad deal.

Here is another thing to remember - you jam a round into the lands and it can mean the difference between a safe load and proof load in pressure. I think that a little "freebore" is a good thing just for safety. there are also certain brands of bullets that will cause problems if not stood off of the lands a few thousandths - BARNES being one of those brands... This is something to keep in mind.

A Stony Point Gauge can be had that will give the chamber dimms - call John at Gunstop - I am sure that he has one and you will need that as well as the insert for the 223 - no biggie. It is a little harder to get the true OAL with a Semi - than a bolt - some of the same tricks do not apply as there is a total lack of feel in the process.

The 2 calibers that I like to spend a lot of time with for precisision reloading are the 6.5x55 mauser as well as the 308 - both are incredible in their own way and when yuo do your part and all works well BINGO you will be rewarded

After all of my brass has been fire formed for these calibers - I then go to making real precision ammunition

I use a Redding Neck Sizer die - de-burr the flash holes - ream the pockets - trim to MIN neck length - then I turn the necks GENTLY - i use a VLD Chamfer Tool and use SIERRA BULLETS and Hodgdon Powder for the 6.5 and Winchester 760 for the 308. BTW I do not use match bullets either - I use Sierra 165 HPBT GAME KINGS in the 308 - it is a GREAT bullet and works well for me. Very much SUB MOA.

When you have Sierra Bullets - you dont need to look any farther than that IMHO. Anything Sierra is GOOD. (they should pay me commission)

Precision reloading is FUN and I want to do more of it - problem is that I have more ammo than I can shoot now.

* - Business Bullets - bullets that you can depend on in any and all conditions that can survive rough handling - basically MIL-SPEC not the most accurate - but certianly the most dependable. we can make under all conditions.

[Burnsville Guy]

problem is that I have more ammo than I can shoot now.

If you need help with this problem I would be happy to offer my help!

You guys are killing me with all this reloading talk. I need to get a bigger house with another room for reloading!
This stuff is relly interesting to read would anyone ever let someone just watch them work and ask questions?

Thanks,

BG

[farmerj]

Precision shooting is alot more than the ammunition.

What is the rifle capable of? M14 wouldn't hold a silhouette at 50 yards when I first got it. Would have been pointless to try and load a round for it. After I took care of the rifle, had it tweaked and worked over, put the right parts together, it's now holding a nickle at 200 yards. Yes, I got the target to prove it too.

This is using M118LR match ammunition. 175 gr Match HP military special ball. I am now working up a Match reload in both the 168 gr SMK and the 175 gr SMK and 178GR AMax.

My M1 Garand is a 3-4 MOA rifle. It's an As Issue service Grade Battle Rifle from the CMP. It's not gonna get fed mass high quality reloads till I really see this thing perform. And a stock and trigger job are demanded first before that will happen.

The .243 is pillar bedded and floated. It's a shooter. I have shot 58 gr hornady stuff and wonders if I am missing. It's a hole. And there ain't no moe.

Where have we taken it. Jeez, we weigh casings, we measure casings, we trim casings, we full length size casings, we clean casings, we clean casings, we weigh bullets, we .....

Do lot of fine detailed stuff.....

Separate by weight, by length, Use this primer, use that powder. Shoot at different Temperatures.

Measure Free bore. Measure the Over-all-Case length, the grooves in the chamber.

I finally settled on trying to just mimic that which shot best. M118LR. Jeez did that save us a lot of work.

We will typically save up about 300 pieces of brass for the rifle to process in a batch. either .308, .243, .30-06 or .223.

It gets cleaned, lubed, deprimed, polished, primered, powdered, seated and shot pretty much in that order. Start to finish is about a 2 day job for 300 rounds if you do nothing else.

It's all run through a Rockchucker with a RCBS powder measure, and primer swaged with a Dillion Mil primer swager the first time.

I have settled on Hdgdon H4895 powder as it shows to be more temp stable as well as good for all the above cartridges. I wanted to limit my storage options to a minimum amount of powder. It's one of my requirement. So, even though there are better powders by some, I am not looking. I am happy with the results I get. And when the results are 3 calibers under a quarter at 200 yards, I am not arguing with it.

Primers I use are Magtechs. They work. They are inexpensive and I have never had an issue in rifle or pistol with them not going bang.

Brass right now is surplus israeli and Australian brass. It's been pretty steady and I am using it for 4 reloads right now in the M14.

The M2 ball, .30-06 I am using Korean PS headstamped brass.

The .243 is Federal and Hornady brass.

The .223 stuff I am not working with, but the brass is gonna be hard for me find. It's just about as scarce as a good source of surplus.

The total of it....

Patience.

If you don't have the patience for detail, step away and come back again later.

If your having a bad day, stay away from this stuff.

[Pinnacle]

Precision reloading is a whole different ball game

you can basically slap 1000 pistol rounds together without a whole lot of thought - lets be reasonable

I have massaged 300 cases for a week to get them right...

Write Patience on the wall.

[DeanC]

Don't forget to uniform and deburr your primer flash holes.

[hammAR]

Since this is a thread discussing Precision Rifle Reloading, and there have been several really good posts so far, I thought that I would attempt to add to it.

This post and process information was originally provided by Jesse, one of the best triggers that I have ever known. I tend to follow his directions and recommendations to a T, and here we will deal with just one particular aspect of case prep for reloading fire-formed cases:

Solvent Wash

This is something I started after tumbling brass in the red walnut shells. The amount of red stuff left on the brass was a mess. So I would solvent wash the brass and I am still doing it. The solvent wash is a three-step or three-pail process.

First I place the oily cases in an old tin peanut can (which are harder to find now days) which I have drill a bunch of 1/8 inch drain holes in the bottom. The tin peanut can holds about 50-52, cases (308 Win.), and I placed the cases in the tin can with the primer end or cartridge base up. No good reason for primer up other than if some paint or can liner, breaks loose you may see it in the primer pocket and may not see it way down inside the case. I think the cases also drain better in this position.

Step one is dip into pail of lacquer thinner. First wash and thinner gets dirty

Step two is dip into pail of lacquer thinner. Second wash and thinner stays cleaner

Step three is dip into pail of acetone. Final rinse and acetone dries fast.

Dump brass on terry cloth towel and wipe outside surfaces. Fold towel over cases and rub them around a little. I use some old one-gallon house paint pails and do this operation outdoors. .

Case polishing

This step will make some of the bench rest shooter shudder just a little. But I have changed from tumbling to vibrating polishing process. I have replaced my Tumbler with a Midway vibrating brass polisher. The Midway works great and I polish 100 cases for 3 hours. No beating up the case mouths like the tumbler. I like shinny cases, they make me shoot better.