***** factory ammo for .30-06?

[Pinnacle]

30-06 is just a lot of gun. People mistake it for being benign. It isn't. Too much for most people to shoot.

[crbutler]

30-06 is just a lot of gun. People mistake it for being benign. It isn't. Too much for most people to shoot.

Huh?

.30-06? Are you kidding me?

I know under 100# women who shoot .375 H&H regularly.

In any case, I doubt the problem is the cartridge.

Recoil's intolerabilty is the summation of several factors, some controllable, some not so much so.

First off is technique. One sure way to make sure that rifle smacks you good is to shoot off a bench with just a front rest bag, or worse yet, prone off a bag. The most tolerable (but least accurate) is standing offhand. Make sure you are using good contact (firm) with the pocket of the shoulder. The proliferation of .223's (and the pictures of the servicemen shooting them in body armor) have caused this simple factor to be badly neglected.

Second is fit of the rifle. If the length of pull is too long or too short it will cause problems. If the sights are such that you will need to crawl up on the stock, you will have trouble.

Third is weight of the rifle. Using an ultra light mountain rifle as a general purpose plinker is going to give more intolerable recoil. Heavy is good for shooting, light is for serious hunting guns and military rifles that are carried a lot more than shot.

Fourth would be the ammo. This has been covered above.

Fifth is the style of the stock. This will be different for everyone. Ruger's rifle stocks kick the daylights out of me. I have some custom stocks on hunting guns that make a .416 kick like a 30-06 from remington. This is very individualized, and some degree of custom fitting is needed, probably part of why the adjustable stocks are so popular with the military and police snipers.

Sixth is noise. The more muzzle blast, the more you will perceive recoil. Use good hearing protection.

Seventh is just plain experience. The more you have shot, the less likely recoil will bother you. I can't begin to count the number of guys I know who shoot a 3" 12 ga while hunting birds, but complain that a .308 has "too much kick..." even though the actual recoil weights are much worse from the shotgun. I think (going off fallible memory) that a handicap trap load will have more recoil energy than a average .30 06 sporter. This is why you should start a new shooter with a .22, and then move up as they gain confidence and ability.

Proper padding can help with tolerability of recoil, but really a PAST pad or a "sissy bag"is a bit of overkill for a .30-06, if you need it for that, you should pay some attention to the rest of the issues. I'm not saying don't use it, as you should be comfortable, but it will cause issues with fit. In brief, I don't think I've met any reasonably healthy guy who could not learn to shoot a .30-06. After all, the average height in the US was a few inches shorter back in 1917, people were generally smaller, yet we used the 1903 Springfield (a quite light piece) as our standard military arm to train thousands of recruits to an acceptable standard during WW I.

[gearguy10]

.30-06? Are you kidding me?

My sentiments exactly. Last time at the range I put 110 rounds of 180gr. bullets through my Sako 85 without any ill effects. Time before that I was shooting Hornady 300gr. SST's out of my 12 guage and quit at about 40. That session left bruises. If you can handle .270 you can handle .30-06. Same case. Smaller bullet.

[FJ540]

I didn't bother reading all that tripe, I got the gist of it as "I'm an interweb tough guy and your buddy sucks." :yawn:

Well, to put this thread to bed, I have the gun back - he's shooting his slug barrel if he manages to even see a deer, since it's what he's used to (shooting slugs and not seeing deer). If you said he was a piss poor deer hunter, I'd not only agree, but give examples. He's not a bolt gun guy, and the .30-06 isn't a pleasant round in a sub-battle rifle configuration. Now if you added a lead sled to the laminated stock to bring it up another 6# like the M1, it might be worthy of comparison - as they sit, it's not an equal playing field. Light weight hunting rifles have less mass to dampen the same thrust. It's physics, and your "I'm better than that schmuck" fallacy doesn't work here.

Thanks for the attempt to get this setup fielded in a positive light (by those who actually cared about helping someone enjoy shooting). We can close this now, or suffer more 2000 word insults to a guy who just wants to hunt and isn't even here to defend himself against people who've never met him.

[crbutler]

Obviously you didn't read it.

Most of the problem is not him, it's gun fit and how he shoots it.

If he can hunt with a slug shotgun, he can handle a .30-06.

Look up the recoil energy. The slug gun has more recoil energy.

[Pinnacle]

Obviously you didn't read it.

Most of the problem is not him, it's gun fit and how he shoots it.

If he can hunt with a slug shotgun, he can handle a .30-06.

Look up the recoil energy. The slug gun has more recoil energy.

Look some people are just not as tough as you purport to be. That's why I like 6.5x55mm. I am just a big ***** I guess.

[crbutler]

I think you miss the point.

Can you shoot a .30-06?

Would you rather shoot a 6.5 mm? Maybe, but you probably could shoot a .30-06 if it was that or nothing. I was thinking that there are alternative ways of dealing with the recoil than automatically assuming that "I can't shoot this thing..." I have been blessed with many different firearms. Some recoil a lot more than others, what is more interesting is some recoil a lot more than others while being essentially the same gun. I have a Ruger .30-06 bolt gun and a custom bolt action .30-06 rifle. The ruger is about 2# heavier. Amazingly, the custom is very comfortable to shoot, while the Ruger is so much a pain that I think I will likely get rid of it. What I took from the initial post was the guy has a .30-06 and says it kicks too much, and can't find any reduced recoil ammo. Rather than say get a .30-30 or a .243, I suggested a few ways to deal with the recoil.

In your case Pinnacle,

I suspect you put a JP recoil eliminator on a .30-06 it will recoil less that your 6.5.

I also am pretty sure you put a suppressor on a .30-06, it will recoil less than your 6.5. (I have shot a 6.5, but I have not shot a .30-06 with a suppressor, just a .308)

Put a good recoil pad on a .30-06 and make sure the LOP is right and you may be surprised how well you shoot it.

I don't think that for a nonreloader in MN that a 6.5 Swede is much of an option. And, again, if this guy's options were a .30-06 or a slug gun, while there may be some individual variability, the slug gun recoils much closer to a hot .45-70 than a .30-06 with a direct energy comparison.

My biggest issue with this whole thread is the assumption that someone cannot deal with recoil. With training, a bit of work on the gun, and a positive attitude you can work wonders. Does that mean that a .243 cannot be more pleasant to shoot? No. My father is a good example. He "learned" years ago that a .30-06 was "too much gun" for him. Got a 1886 Win in .45-70, and he had to give it a try. All of the sudden, he decided that that gun was fun... And now, he can shoot .30-06 without any problems (although he still says my hunting guns beat him up too much) but that's fit, not the cartridge.

I'm not claiming I'm some kind of "he-man" here. Just the opposite. Any of us can do it. As I said, I've met 100# women safari hunters who can shoot a .375 H&H just fine. It is physically possible.

You small gun fanatics are the people feeding folks with the bugbear of "its too big and scary" it doesn't go too much further to "no one needs that thing, its unnecessarily powerful" and then more gun ban splitting occurs ( see Australia as an example.) Sorry, they are all good.

[FJ540]

First high power rifle I ever shot was a .30-06; I was 14. My adult friend who took me shooting hurt his wallet more than I hurt my shoulder that day. I also shot a .44 mag revolver and had smiles bigger than the $.50 per bullet at the time, but I didn't have any money so Ryan put an end to that fun too. Know what I got my 35yr old friend who took me shooting for Christmas? A recoil pad for that gun - he wanted one. My first gun 4 years later was also a .30-06. My cooper would've been a .30-06 had I not got it on a trade situation. If I get stuck with the savage, I'll have no problem shooting it (I already have interested parties trying to claim it). They kick, so what? Is it what I'll teach my wife to shoot with - hell no...

This thread is not about learning how to handle a mule kick round - it was an attempt to get someone more interested in shooting it more often. He didn't like the kick, he didn't like the cost per round, and he didn't like that it's not a semi-auto. I got it for him as a gift, and he wanted a different animal than what came out of the wrapping paper. His shooting the slug gun is where what makes me wish he wouldn't think he can responsibly take deer with a .223 comes from - he doesn't shoot it more than 5 times a year. He wanted a rifle (other than his .22) for shooting often, and he wants to load a mag and keep pulling till it doesn't fire. I'd love to see his displeasure with my single shot cooper. Who needs more than one bullet?

Ethan's also blind in his right eye and has been since birth, he's still right handed and has to lean his head over the stock to aim. Try that one with a hot load and low profile iron sights sometime.

[Pinnacle]

Hey - you are right about a lot of things granted, but the 30-06 recoils a lot harder than a lot of people think and while there are some things that can be done to eliminate some of the problems, like pads and proper fit, that doesnt come out of the box.

Once bitten twice shy. I dont like recoil - I have a rotator cuff problem and just dont like the abuse. I have had my ass kicked by a 30-06 and it is not pleasant.

[plblark]

I didn't bother reading all that tripe, I got the gist of it as "I'm an interweb tough guy and your buddy sucks." :yawn:

And just why would anyone attempt to answer one of your questions in the future? You're going to judge it on factors not entered into the discussion and you're not going to read or consider it. On top of that you're going to sling insults.

[rugersol]

I got a couple chuckles outta this thread ... some good one-liners!

That aside, I know crbutler ... he made one comment that apparently undermined an otherwise excellent post as to the problem, at hand.

Any of us who've gone through a few guns (and would like to have more 'n a couple of 'em back) hate to see someone discount a gun without putting forth some effort to try to make it work better. That's what I took from butler's posts.

That said, .300 Win. Mag. recoils more than .30-06 recoils more than .308 recoils more than .243. My uncle shoots (and fer the last 30yr+, always has) a .243. He'd like to shoot something bigger ... but he's got bad shoulders. Moreover, no one gives him **** about it.

If anyone thinks they're gonna make their first deer rifle a .300 Win. Mag. and run out and actually hit something much over 100yd with it, they're in fer a big surprise!

If a .30-06 don't got a good LOP and a nice squishy butt-pad, and a nice big scope on it, most folks are still in fer a big surprise!

It ain't often, but when someone asks me about a deer rifle, I always say 7mm-08 ... plenty fer deer ... and easy to shoot ... purdy much no matter what!

It's a bit of cherry picking ... but most any other noob won't have the means to make a more informed choice anyhow ... comparing a Hornady 165gr Interlock BTSP vs. Hornady 139gr SST Superformance, the 7mm-08's got 97% of the energy of the .30-06 at 200yd ... 99.5% at 300yd.

Everyone likes to talk tough about how the .30-06 beats everything else ... hands down! And if yer not a good shot, maybe it is 0.00001% better? But it takes a lot more seeds to show up to camp with a "smaller" gun.

FWIW, if yer buddy's tryin' to use his left-eye, I'd guess he's never gonna be too comfortable 'til he can shoulder it on his left. May seem awkward fer a while. But if he wants to shoot a long-gun, my guess is it'll be worth it!

[Vlad]

It ain't often, but when someone asks me about a deer rifle, I always say 7mm-08 ... plenty fer deer ... and easy to shoot ... purdy much no matter what!

FWIW, if yer buddy's tryin' to use his left-eye, I'd guess he's never gonna be too comfortable 'til he can shoulder it on his left. May seem awkward fer a while. But if he wants to shoot a long-gun, my guess is it'll be worth it!

+1 to both comments.

For caliber choices, dead is dead. Most guides will tell you straight out that they prefer a hunter that can put a 243 in the chest than a 7mm Win mag in the arse because they flinch so bad and have not practiced because it hurts… That being said, shoot what you have enough to be proficient. For some that is down loading/ hand loading, others it is using a 22 that is about the same size and weight and practicing with that. Sight picture and trigger control skills transfer well from one rifle to another. No different than practicing with target 38s in a j frame and carrying +P when it counts.

As an instructor, if I have a student that is L eye dominant, I do my best to teach them to shoot left handed. 10% of the population is cross eye dominant so I run into this all the time. Not only will he find it more comfortable, his accuracy will get better as well.

[gearguy10]

I shoot a .243 now and again. Fun to shoot. That would be my recommendation. I just prefer a caliber that will reach out and touch something if I need it to. I've dropped deer at 300 yds with a .30-06 that didn't take a single step after the bullet connected. I wouldn't trust my .243 to do that.

[Vlad]

OK, I will give you the 300 yard shot scenario, if you are practiced and competent at that distance. From everything I have read, the average deer in Minnesota is shot at inside of 50 yards. Personally, I have take north of 30 deer, only two were over 100 yards. I realize that I am hunting in a heavily forested and hilly area and cannot see most times beyond 150 yards but there are times I get out to the corn and hay fields with 600 yards available vision. To me, that is the time to stalk within a reasonable distance where I know my shot (singular) will be true and result in a humane and quick death of my dinner.