OAL questions

[RottenHam]

then my 1.479" OAL cartridges are probably safe to fire.

Thanks!

I can't say that for sure without knowing which powder and how much you are using.

Understood. I'm using the minimum recommended load in the Lyman book.

[RottenHam]

Not to add to your concerns but those cast bullets don't look quite right. Are you sure the lead was up to temp? It appears you did not get very good flow into the edges. They all seem to be slightly deformed.

They look slightly deformed because I deformed them in the lube press. Before that, they were just a little wrinkled due to, I believe, insufficiently warm moulds. I'm eager to try again as soon as we get warmer weather.

[RottenHam]

Not to add to your concerns but those cast bullets don't look quite right. Are you sure the lead was up to temp? It appears you did not get very good flow into the edges. They all seem to be slightly deformed.

And how much do they weigh?

Every one I've weighed came in between 158 and 160 grs.

[RottenHam]

In a nutshell: I don't cast my own bullets. For .38spl I buy lead from Missouri Bullet Co and jacketed from MT Gold, usually. I seat and crimp in the cannelure on the jacketed bullets and to the crimp groove in the lead. I am therefore seating the bullets to the point intended by the bullet mfr. I don't load to max charges, sticking low to mid. I often use Trail Boss for the lead and Unique or Bullseye for the jacketed. I note the OAL in my notes and often it is less than the max OAL (never greater).

Unless there is something totally wacked about the length of the brass, I don't sweat the OAL in .38spl with my loads. I am not saying to ignore OAL, certainly in 9mm and .40 it's a different ball game. But trying to achieve max prescribed OAL with .38spl is not really the goal. I'd seat and crimp to the intended point and OAL will be a result of that.

That being said, I don't cast my own bullets and cannot say that yours are correct or that you should seat yours to the crimp groove. I think I am saying the same thing that Dean said, and he is correct in saying that knowing your powder choice and charge weight is necessary to say if your OAL is "safe."

OK. That all sounds good.

For the record, my loads are:

~160gr #358311 RN bullet
3.2 grs Bullseye
CCI 500 small pistol primer
new, unfired Remington brass

and:

~150gr #358091 wadcutter
3.1 grs Titegroup
CCI 500 small pistol primer
new, unfired Remington brass

These are the suggested starting loads for these bullets on pp. 354-355 of the Lyman 49th handbook.

[Eric Marleau]

Like the other guys have said. Read the reloading books!!!
With a new load, I will consult at least two of my books, and the IMR web page on the internet.

Now--a bit of advice.
You are new to reloading, and already want to test the limits of a .38spc.
Very--very--DANGEROUS!!!
Start with the lower load drops, and work your way up. You will be surprised that the more moderate loads will be the most accurate. Especial with the wimpy .38spc. [Trust me, Moose Hunting is out with this cartridge]
The only loads that I go magnum on, are for hunting, in which case I use H110. [ Stay away from this powder please]
All of my target loads, are very light, and very accurate. No reason to beat up my gun just to punch paper.

Just start slow, and PLEASE forget about any +P. Try to get with an experienced reloader for some hands on learning.

Good luck, be safe, and have fun.

Eric

[Seismic Sam]

Definitely bullets that were cast too cold, and the other clue is the ring up on the nose of the bullet. That's the nose punch embossing itself in the lead, so it could be that you have the wrong nose punch for that bullet. Did you use a Lyman 450 sizer?? The other thing I see with the one round that is seated waaaayyy too deep and crooked is that you may not be belling the case mouth enough for the lead bullet to slide in properly. You want to bell the case mouth enough that the bottom .010" to .020" of the bullet fits in the case mouth with light finger pressure.

Trying to cast your own bullets AND learn reloading at the same time is definitely a no-no, and I almost hate to ask what your casting setup was like. If you have a properly heated lead pot (like an electric Lee Production Pot) you can cast outside in the winter if you know what you're doing. If you have iron Lyman molds, it may take 20 or more pours for that iron mold to get up to temperature. Lee aluminum molds heat up much quicker.

What lead mixture are you using??
How are you melting the lead?
Are you using a dipper to pour the lead into the mold??

[steve4102]

he needs to crimp in the groove ... that's what it's fer!

something's wrong with his bullets ... take a close look, then at Lyman's picture ... he's losin' all of 0.08in off the nose.

he needs store-bought bullets! ... at least 'til he can cast 'em, jest as good.

This! ^^^^^

Crimp in the crimp groove, you have little or no other choice. Then do what you are doing, start low and work up. Seems to me you are doing what needs to be done. Except for the Tight Group. Don't think it is a good choice for new reloaders, I would switch to something more forgiving and a bit slower burning.

[RottenHam]

Like the other guys have said. Read the reloading books!!!

I have. Why do you think I haven't read the reloading books?

Now--a bit of advice.
You are new to reloading, and already want to test the limits of a .38spc.
Very--very--DANGEROUS!!!
Start with the lower load drops, and work your way up.

I'm starting with the minimum load from the Lyman 49th. Why do you think this is "testing the limits of a .38spc?"

Just start slow, and PLEASE forget about any +P.

I have no intention of trying any +P loads anytime soon. As I said, I'm starting with the suggested minimum loads for my bullets.

Good luck, be safe, and have fun.

Thanks!

[RottenHam]

Definitely bullets that were cast too cold, and the other clue is the ring up on the nose of the bullet. That's the nose punch embossing itself in the lead, so it could be that you have the wrong nose punch for that bullet. Did you use a Lyman 450 sizer??

I used the Lyman 4500.

The other thing I see with the one round that is seated waaaayyy too deep and crooked is that you may not be belling the case mouth enough for the lead bullet to slide in properly. You want to bell the case mouth enough that the bottom .010" to .020" of the bullet fits in the case mouth with light finger pressure.

OK. I used the regular neck-expander die that comes with the Lyman .38/.357 die set. Is there another neck expander die you suggest? Also, I seated that bullet to the "forward band" (I think) as suggested by Lyman. Is there a different band you suggest I seat to?

Trying to cast your own bullets AND learn reloading at the same time is definitely a no-no, and I almost hate to ask what your casting setup was like. If you have a properly heated lead pot (like an electric Lee Production Pot) you can cast outside in the winter if you know what you're doing. If you have iron Lyman molds, it may take 20 or more pours for that iron mold to get up to temperature. Lee aluminum molds heat up much quicker.

I am using iron Lyman moulds so aluminum would be a good upgrade. Thanks for the suggestion.

What lead mixture are you using??

I'm using Midway's 20-to-1 alloy.

How are you melting the lead?

I'm using a Lyman Mini-Mag furnace.

Are you using a dipper to pour the lead into the mold??

Yes. I'm using the ladle that came with the kit.

[RottenHam]

Crimp in the crimp groove, you have little or no other choice. Then do what you are doing, start low and work up. Seems to me you are doing what needs to be done. Except for the Tight Group. Don't think it is a good choice for new reloaders, I would switch to something more forgiving and a bit slower burning.

OK. I used the TiteGroup because that was the powder that Lyman said was most accurate for that bullet. I believe there is a Bullseye load for it (I don't have the book in front of me right now) so I can try that instead. Thanks.

[Eric Marleau]

Sorry that I upset you so much buddy.

HOWEVER--anytime that I see a new reloader, saying that his gun takes +P ammunition I know EXACTLY where he is headed. [Even if he doesn't know it yet]

Just figured that I would issue a little warning.

Carry on Rottenham

E.

[RottenHam]

Understood, and I do appreciate the concern. Thanks.

[Rem700]

Eric response seems to come from the fact you mentioned your Taurus was rated for +P which might mean you think your gun has a safety factor buillt in which would help a new reloader= Dont count on it and be safe.

This thread is getting dragged in all directions so trying to keep things straight is going to get difficult.
Aluminum molds might not be a upgrade just different properties requireing diffferent techniques.
As Sam indicated you molds might require multiple cast before getting upto temp pending how fast you cast without allowing the temps to cool, Resting the molds on top of the furnace while waiting for the lead to heat up helps preheating the molds.

Your mold and or lead temps look to be too low
Your nose top punch may or maynot be correct for the bullets, Many are generic for use with many bullets.
Not that it should effect oal but there should not be any lube in the crimp groove.

Your correct in questioning Mike Venturino on the 45/70 as he is only covering half of the info required and is talking more about single shot rifles useing Black Powder if I recall correctly/havnt got the book in front of me.

There are many noobs who come here asking ?s without ever reading any books hence the did you read the books comments.

Nobody is going to stick there neck out or risk injureing you stating if you do xyz you will be ok.

[RottenHam]

Eric response seems to come from the fact you mentioned your Taurus was rated for +P which might mean you think your gun has a safety factor buillt in which would help a new reloader= Dont count on it and be safe.

OK. I can see where he's coming from. It would have been best for me to have not mentioned the +P thing.

Your mold and or lead temps look to be too low

OK. When I cast the bullets, I rested the moulds on the top deck of the furnace to heat them. Perhaps they needed to sit there longer before I started pouring.

Your nose top punch may or maynot be correct for the bullets, Many are generic for use with many bullets.

I suspect that the top punch was too generic for the bullet. I used the one recommended for the bullet in the Lyman documentation but I don't think I was actually supposed to apply any pressure to it. It probably works fine for a variety of RN bullets as long as one doesn't use the press to push down on the bullet.

Not that it should effect oal but there should not be any lube in the crimp groove.

I didn't know that. I thought there was supposed to be lube in all grooves. Thanks.

Nobody is going to stick there neck out or risk injureing you stating if you do xyz you will be ok.

Understood. I'm not looking for guarantees, just information. Thanks.

[Rem700]

Feel free to ask questions, Youll receive help as much as possible.
Regarding lubeing the way your doing it PROBABLY not going to effect anything other then makeing more of a mess. There might be a reason one is referred to as a lube groove and the other a crimp groove, One is for lube and the other for crimping

Another website devoted to casting boolits and weeks if not months of reading.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/