OAL questions

[Seismic Sam]

"I didn't know that. I thought there was supposed to be lube in all grooves. Thanks"

Okay, this is an absolute, unforgivable screwup. The configuration and depth of the lube grooves and the crimp grooves are TOTALLY different, and it should have occurred to you that these grooves were VERY different, and thus had very different purposes. For whatever reason, you just made a totally unsupported assumption that all the grooves had to be lubed (and you sure as hell didn't get that from the Lyman bullet Manual!!) and off you went into the wilderness pushing the bullet WAAAYY too deep into the size die, which could explain the nose deformation. With my 35 year old Lyman 450, I wouldn't even have the slightest clue how to shove my bullets that much deeper into the die.

Oh, and resting molds on top of the casting furnace won't do diddly squat to bring them up to temperature. They need molten lead to be poured into them to heat up the centers of the dies. For 38 Special bullets, a 95% lead 5% tin mixture (1/20)is adequate, but for anything other than 45 LC that's pretty soft bullet metal, so you need to bone up on the hardness of various alloys, because 1/20 won't cut it for most calibers. Seeing as you do have the Lyman bullet manual, you will read in there that the reccomended alloy is Lyman #2 alloy, which is 90% lead, 5% tin, and 5% antimony. As a matter of fact, I seem to recal that they spec this for just about every mold they make.

Cease and desist bullet casting altogether, buy some jacketed bullets, and learn to reload first!!

[RottenHam]

Another website devoted to casting boolits and weeks if not months of reading.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/

That's a great site. Thanks.

[RottenHam]

"I didn't know that. I thought there was supposed to be lube in all grooves. Thanks"

Okay, this is an absolute, unforgivable screwup. The configuration and depth of the lube grooves and the crimp grooves are TOTALLY different, and it should have occurred to you that these grooves were VERY different, and thus had very different purposes. For whatever reason, you just made a totally unsupported assumption that all the grooves had to be lubed (and you sure as hell didn't get that from the Lyman bullet Manual!!) and off you went into the wilderness pushing the bullet WAAAYY too deep into the size die, which could explain the nose deformation. With my 35 year old Lyman 450, I wouldn't even have the slightest clue how to shove my bullets that much deeper into the die.

I pushed too hard on the lever and that caused the deformation.

Oh, and resting molds on top of the casting furnace won't do diddly squat to bring them up to temperature. They need molten lead to be poured into them to heat up the centers of the dies. For 38 Special bullets, a 95% lead 5% tin mixture (1/20)is adequate, but for anything other than 45 LC that's pretty soft bullet metal, so you need to bone up on the hardness of various alloys, because 1/20 won't cut it for most calibers. Seeing as you do have the Lyman bullet manual, you will read in there that the reccomended alloy is Lyman #2 alloy, which is 90% lead, 5% tin, and 5% antimony. As a matter of fact, I seem to recal that they spec this for just about every mold they make.

Cease and desist bullet casting altogether, buy some jacketed bullets, and learn to reload first!!

I'll get some jacketed bullets and start with those but I do intend to try casting again as soon as the weather warms up. I know I'll make mistakes along the way but I'm learning and I won't give up.

[Rem700]

"I didn't know that. I thought there was supposed to be lube in all grooves. Thanks"

Okay, this is an absolute, unforgivable screwup. The configuration and depth of the lube grooves and the crimp grooves are TOTALLY different, and it should have occurred to you that these grooves were VERY different, and thus had very different purposes. For whatever reason, you just made a totally unsupported assumption that all the grooves had to be lubed (and you sure as hell didn't get that from the Lyman bullet Manual!!) and off you went into the wilderness pushing the bullet WAAAYY too deep into the size die, which could explain the nose deformation. With my 35 year old Lyman 450, I wouldn't even have the slightest clue how to shove my bullets that much deeper into the die.

Oh, and resting molds on top of the casting furnace won't do diddly squat to bring them up to temperature. They need molten lead to be poured into them to heat up the centers of the dies. For 38 Special bullets, a 95% lead 5% tin mixture (1/20)is adequate, but for anything other than 45 LC that's pretty soft bullet metal, so you need to bone up on the hardness of various alloys, because 1/20 won't cut it for most calibers. Seeing as you do have the Lyman bullet manual, you will read in there that the reccomended alloy is Lyman #2 alloy, which is 90% lead, 5% tin, and 5% antimony. As a matter of fact, I seem to recal that they spec this for just about every mold they make.

Cease and desist bullet casting altogether, buy some jacketed bullets, and learn to reload first!!

Yes no maybe, He did recognize he had problems and sought out help advice.
Resting the moulds on the furnace may not get them to temp but they will be closer then room temp yes/no
Its also possible to have lead that is too hard as well as soft.
A mold is specd on a given alloy to dia and weight but is not the only alloy that may be used.

I might not be a reloading casting guru but have have cast bullets useing nothing but wheel weights for 32s,38s,9mm,45colt,45acp,44mag, 38/55, 45/70
I dont believe he should give up either hobby but do agree that he should learn both seperately before trying to combine them to illiminate one creating issues with the other.

[Eric Marleau]

Here is an idea, that you can take or leave, but it will work.

Head over to Wolf's Den and buy a box of 500 148gr wad cutters [WC]

Use small pistol primers.
4.0gr of W-231 powder.
Just crimp where the crimping groove is.
If you crimp too much, it will bulge the case, so just back off a tad.

This is a great load for a .38spl, and also easy on you and your gun.

Pretty much fool proof too.

Eric

PS--If you do go to Wolf's Den, pick Gary's mind on reloading, and casting. It seems that I learn something new every time that I go there, and I have been reloading for over 40 years.--E.

[RottenHam]

I'll take a trip up there sometime soon. I'll bring along some of my bullets (er..."boolits") and ask for an in-person critique.

[Eric Marleau]

Lots of knowledge hang out at that little gun shop.

Good luck.

Eric

[OldmanFCSA]

PM sent.

[Seismic Sam]

Pushing too hard on the lever is something that happens. That explains the deformation, but I would like to know EXACTLY where you got the idea that all the grooves on the bullet were supposed to have lube in them??

I'm kind of up in the air about showing up at Wolf's Den with some of your bullets and asking for a crtique. Gary is a pretty nice guy, and provided you just ask for that you'll probably be fine. Tell him about need to put the lube in all the grooves, and he may decide you're a lost cause.

Gary, BTW, was part owner of Islander Bullets some years back, so he made a living at casting bullets and does pretty much know everything on this subject, up to an including hardness changes due to the age of the bullet, be it months or years. He's the guy with the pipe in his mouth. Hope you like tobacco smoke...

[RottenHam]

Pushing too hard on the lever is something that happens. That explains the deformation, but I would like to know EXACTLY where you got the idea that all the grooves on the bullet were supposed to have lube in them??

I don't have the Lyman cast bullet handbook in front of me right now but I don't recall it making a distinction between lube and crimp grooves. I now know better. Thanks for helping to set me straight on that.

I'm kind of up in the air about showing up at Wolf's Den with some of your bullets and asking for a crtique. Gary is a pretty nice guy, and provided you just ask for that you'll probably be fine. Tell him about need to put the lube in all the grooves, and he may decide you're a lost cause.

I'm a newbie. I'm not "telling" anyone anything. I'm listening and learning.

Gary, BTW, was part owner of Islander Bullets some years back, so he made a living at casting bullets and does pretty much know everything on this subject, up to an including hardness changes due to the age of the bullet, be it months or years. He's the guy with the pipe in his mouth. Hope you like tobacco smoke...

Thanks. I'll look for the guy with the pipe.

[steve4102]

. Bolt action rifles: too much either way can result in face removal.

..

Not sure what you mean by this, but seating deeper into the case in a bottle necked rifle round reduces pressure. How would this "result in face removal"?

[RottenHam]

For whatever reason, you just made a totally unsupported assumption that all the grooves had to be lubed (and you sure as hell didn't get that from the Lyman bullet Manual!!)...

I now have my Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th ed. in front of me. At the bottom of p. 53, it reads:

A question often asked by novice bullet casters pertains to bullets with multiple lube grooves. They ask, "Do I need to fill them all?" The answer is not necessarily. Personally, for my BPCR target ammunition I do lubricate all grooves, making sure not to leave any even partially filled. That is to insure the bullet is balanced.

That's where I got the idea that all grooves needed to be lubed. The text makes no distinction between crimp grooves and lube grooves. It doesn't talk about "crimp grooves" at all.

Furthermore, the text talks about pan lubing. Pan lubing is going to put grease in all of the grooves. I seriously doubt pan lubers tape off the crimp grooves to keep grease out of them (or maybe they do but I've never heard about it in any of my research so far). If pan lubers aren't concerned about getting lube in their crimp grooves, there was no reason for me to have been concerned about it, especially when my handbook said to "lubricate all grooves, making sure not to leave any even partially filled."

Now that I know better, I won't be lubing the crimp groove.

[RottenHam]

For 38 Special bullets, a 95% lead 5% tin mixture (1/20)is adequate, but for anything other than 45 LC that's pretty soft bullet metal, so you need to bone up on the hardness of various alloys, because 1/20 won't cut it for most calibers. Seeing as you do have the Lyman bullet manual, you will read in there that the reccomended alloy is Lyman #2 alloy, which is 90% lead, 5% tin, and 5% antimony. As a matter of fact, I seem to recal that they spec this for just about every mold they make.

I used 20-to-1 because of this passage in the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th ed. (bottom left column, p. 69):

Generally, the alloy should be tailored to a specific application. For instance, revolver loads with velocities between 700 and 900 fps and with pressures less than 20,000 psi; an alloy with a BHN of around 10 will usually give excellent results. The recipe for this alloy is 20 parts lead to 1 part tin. The base of such bullets will usually slug up to create that important gas seal, yet are hard enough to hold the rifling as they enter the barrel and prevent skidding, which often causes leading.

As I'm making "revolver loads with velocities between 700 and 900 fps and with pressures less than 20,000 psi" and would love to have "excellent results," I chose 20-to-1.

[Rodentman]

IMHO I always thought of casting bullets as an "advanced" aspect of reloading since it introduces so many new variables. I've reloaded quite a bit, and quite a few calibers from .380 to .50 AE and have only made 1 error that I didn't catch, one uncharged case resulting in a squib. For me, lead bullets are cheap enough. For some reason I always thought it risky, but that's just me.

[Seismic Sam]

Well, the Lyman manual could be accused of making an error in this case, in that they ASSume that the reloader will know the difference between lube grooves and crimp grooves. Considering how different the size and shape of of the grooves are, however, it's been kind of a moot point for practically everybody except you. For the record, you are the FIRST person I have run into in 40 years of reloading who has made the assumption that all grooves need to be lubed, and failed to grasp the dimensional differences between lube grooves and crimp grooves. Sorry for the Spanish Inquisition, but you're reading text from a manual that has been a mainstay in bullet casting for a VERY long time, and you're coming up with mistakes that I have never seen before.

Here's the reality of making mistakes involving stuff that runs at tens of thousands of PSI.