Which Powder Dispenser/Scale combo to get?

[Seismic Sam]

If you want a reliable digital scale, get a Gempro 250, which is a jewler's scale. Nothing less than that will get you the accuracy you can really trust. And even with that scale, a plastic weighing pan can still screw up the whole deal. Gotta be metal weighing pan. And as far as the reviews online, probably 90% of the people have never read that letter from Dillon which basically spills the beans and says that the scale measures in .01 gram increments, and then translates that it grain weights that are variably erroneous, and can't even represent over 50% of the possible grain weights. In real life, these digital scales can probably register any grain weight possible, which means that the roundoff error is being compounded by the "guessing engine" that is attempting to filter the piezoelectric load cell into two or thee "bins" of value, and then picking the one with the highest probability. If you really want to bet on this sytem, your odds at Prairie Isalnd are a LOT better.

[arizona98tj]

Regardless of how bad my RCBS scale/dispenser combo is supposed to be, it still allows me to produce ammo for my .308 that shoots 5 shot groups under 1/2 MOA. When I bought it a couple of years ago, it was the fastest dispensing unit on the market and was the easiest to clean out after a reloading session. Having used a balance beam scale for 30 some years, I've found no shortcomings from my electronic RCBS unit.

[Seismic Sam]

Yes, but what are the specs on the scale?? Maybe you have an extremely forgiving and accurate rifle.

[OldmanFCSA]

Regardless of how bad my RCBS scale/dispenser combo is supposed to be, it still allows me to produce ammo for my .308 that shoots 5 shot groups under 1/2 MOA. When I bought it a couple of years ago, it was the fastest dispensing unit on the market and was the easiest to clean out after a reloading session. Having used a balance beam scale for 30 some years, I've found no shortcomings from my electronic RCBS unit.

My RCBS Powder dispenser continues to work great. A few minor adjustments and it delivers excellent results. One trick is a piece of a McDonalds straw about 5/16" long in the end of dispensing tube which helps with more accurate fine grain droppage. Other adjustments are listed here online - an easy search.

SAM - HAS IT EVER OCCURRED TO YOU THAT YOU MAY BE WRONG ?????????????????????????? Get off your high horse !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bulldog - What have you learned about this topic ???????

[AlexNGreen]

Regardless of how bad my RCBS scale/dispenser combo is supposed to be, it still allows me to produce ammo for my .308 that shoots 5 shot groups under 1/2 MOA. When I bought it a couple of years ago, it was the fastest dispensing unit on the market and was the easiest to clean out after a reloading session. Having used a balance beam scale for 30 some years, I've found no shortcomings from my electronic RCBS unit.

SAM - HAS IT EVER OCCURRED TO YOU THAT YOU MAY BE WRONG ?????????????????????????? Get off your high horse !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sam is probably right at a technical level. I say probably because I have neither time nor patience to check so I take what he says as truth.
Being correct technically doesn't always matter, though. Sometimes it blinds you from the greater picture. In this case, as somebody looking into reloading, he makes the process seem very intimidating and costly.

Enough of this thread jacking, lets get back on topic.

[Erud]

To sum up quickly, ANY electronic scale with a precision of .01 gram or 0.1 grain is JUNK!! Don't buy it!! Doesn't matter how much it costs. Only scales that are worth anything are jeweler's scales that measure to at least .005 gram, and better yet, .001 gram.

The above statement is only true if your ultimate goal is weighing things as precisely as possible. If your goal is to produce extremely accurate ammunition, this statement means very little. The digital scales work very well for producing great ammunition. I have used the RCBS Chargemaster Combo for the last 6 years. For all intents and purposes, it is accurate to +/- .1 grains. I also have a Denver Instruments MXX 123 that is accurate to .02 grains that collects dust as the differences in charge weights are not significant enough to warrant the extra time required to use this scale. .02 grains equals 1 kernel of Varget. If you think that my .308 load of 46 grains of Varget is significantly affected by a variance of one(or even a few) kernels of powder you are fooling yourself. There are many other factors that will affect your bullet's path a lot more than a .1 grain variance in powder charge will. The Chargemaster is a heck of a lot faster and easier to use than a beam scale or the DI and easily produces ammo capable of cleaning NRA HP targets. This is not rocket science, as much as some would like you to believe.

My charge master stopped working after 5 years and I called RCBS to see what my options were. The guy asked when I bought it, then said; "Nope, not under warranty." I asked if I was SOL and the guy said no, just send it back along with a check for $40 and they'd ship me a new one. They did. I don't think I could have asked for anything much better than that.

Here's an interesting article that they did over on 6br.com comparing some of the scale/dispenser combos:

http://www.accurateshooter.com/gear-rev ... -part-one/

Also, if anyone wants to buy a Denver Instruments MXX-123, I'll sell you mine as I really don't use it at all. Here's an article on that:

http://www.accurateshooter.com/gear-rev ... -123-test/

[Seismic Sam]

Sorry Alex, but after 35 years as a research scientist for 3M in labratories in the Medical Division where you had to certify that ALL your equipment was calibrated to the FDA among other groups, I know a mismatch in two different weight systems when I see it. .01 gram accuracy and 0.1 grain accuracy DO NOT ALIGN WITH EACH OTHER!! It's like having a digital caliper that reads to .001" inch but only a tenth of a millimeter. So you got a caliper that can divide 1 inch into thousandths, but in mm it can only divide one inch into 254 different values, which is a 4X discrepancy in accuracy.

And BTW, you never did get around to telling me what the specs on your system were...

As far as cost, I continue to use the Redding Beam balance I have had for at least 30 years, so my outlay for powder scales is no greater than anybody else's.

[samginko]

I think if the end result is more consistent ammo than factory ammo, chargemaster combo is more than enough. In fact, I have a friend who loads 308 on his 550b and he gets less than moa all day long. His philosophy is less time reloading and more time shooting.

[Snowgun]

One thing to consider, is that your read out error can be huge, but if the throw is consistent every time you still get accuracy

[Seismic Sam]

Good point!! You still have to be wary with large sized powder granules and flakes, but consistency with throwing the charge is a very vital part of it.

Oh, the OTHER trick is to throw the charge from the measure with the handle down (meaning the metering chamber has already been filled and allowed to sit for a few seconds) than starting with the handle up, throwing it down to fill the tube, and then pulling it back up immediately to dump it into the case. Those first 5 or 10 seconds are crucial in allowing the powder to settle reproducibly in the charge chamber.

[Rodentman]

Sam I don't understand your last post regarding the position of the handle. Doesn't the powder discharge when the handle is down?

Of course I haven't been able to «settle reproducibly in the charge chamber» in years.

[Seismic Sam]

Sorry, but I got the up and down backwards. My bad.

[arizona98tj]

Yes, but what are the specs on the scale?? Maybe you have an extremely forgiving and accurate rifle.

When I first started using it, I would weigh each thrown charge twice, once on the RCBS electronic scale (obviously) and once on my 30 year old Lyman beam scale. I could never get the two to disagree more than the thickness of the width of the pointer line on the Lyman.

Shooting identical loads, assembled with powder measured with both scales, shows no difference on the range.

I'm not sure how much more accurate you think my RCBS needs to be.

[OldmanFCSA]

Sam I don't understand your last post regarding the position of the handle. Doesn't the powder discharge when the handle is down?

Of course I haven't been able to «settle reproducibly in the charge chamber» in years.

Sam, I'll get this for you.

I have four Hornady powder dumps and 1 RBCS powder dump.

The 3 normal powder dumps fill the chamber when you raise the handle (if assembled correctly). Care must be taken to raise and hold for a period of time (varies by powder and charge amount) giving the powder time to flow and fill the chamber fully and evenly every time. Then lower the handle to bottom to dump the powder charge, and give the handle a quick raise and sharp rap down to ensure all powder drops out of tube. Do not raise sufficiently to fill chamber again!

On my 2 larger Hornady powder dumps made specifically for 250 grains of very coarse powder for my 50BMG cartridges, proper assembly causes chambers to fill when handle is up and is at its standard resting position, and dumping occurs when handle is lowered, and bumped against bottom of travel. This reversal is caused by weight of adjustment tube hanging off cylinder of powder measure. And this is not normal loading conditions most people will see.

Hope this explains things, if not feel free to jump in with a better description.

[Rodentman]

Yes, In understand. When the handle is up, the chamber fills. When the handle is lowered, the powder falls through the drop tube.

Takes a bit of time for 34g of H110 to drain our for the .50 case....