Ripple in 9mm shell

[Rodentman]

Most of the time I used a Lee universal expanding die, after polishing the inserts with fine sandpaper. It still bells a bit of a steep angle, as Sam says, but has a knob on top allowing for easy adjustment. Lately I've been using the Redding diesets and found their expanding dies much better.

I do have 1 Lyman M die which does indeed put a very nice two stage expansion on the case.

[Mjollnir]

Sorry, Sam. I'm used to metric when it comes to science. I'll switch over to inches, and ...voila. Nothing wrong with my sizing die. Duh.

I'm going to take out the crimp entirely, reset the sizing die, and I see the wripple moving down the case as I find the right depth, (using inches). I throw on the crimp and sizing with die four, ever so slightly. Done. It will have to do, and the wrinkle is less pronounced.

I am going to deprime and resize BEFORE I tumble the brass on this next batch. I'll let you know how it goes.

10-10.

[Seismic Sam]

Do not deprime your brass before you tumble it!! With the primer still in the case you won't get as much media stuck in the #@$@$$%%&**&*&$^*%*^ primer hole, and even if you do, the primer pin will punch it all out when you resize, plus the cases will be cleaner and and slipprier, and probably go through the die better. Picking media out of open primer holes is a REAL PITA that can totally be avoided! Then keep working on getting that mouth expander die adjusted just right!

Note: It may be the case that the Lee Expander plug is SO rough that some section of the case mouth is hanging up on a groove, and thus pushing the case rim down. In any case, chuck the expander stem in a drill and polish it with some 360-400 Silicon Carbide sandpaper until it looks like my 2nd picture.

[Mjollnir]

The FAQ pages at the Lee website were right. The 9mm is a difficult caliber to load because, "the case is tapered, smaller at the top." I stumbled onto the advice to tumble the cases after resizing and depriming, for their pages are numerous and unorganized.

The results for the new batch are in:

Definitely tumble AFTER resizing and depriming. Now I am getting better clearance when using the case length gauge/trimmer. Before, the fit was too tight to turn the tool in the case.
Upon examining some factory ammo other than the Remington brand I use, I noticed I could tell where the bottom of the bullet was seated in their case. That is what my stuff is looking like now with no crushing or leaning. I may even get better results if I roll the cases around in an oily rag first.

My first batch? I've got a lot of bullet pulling to do... I had better get started.

Now I know why a lot of reloaders buy their 9mm. Bully to them.

[Eric Marleau]

Once you get the hang of reloading 9mm, it will actually be enjoyable, and save you money.
Because of the small size of the 9mm case, extra precautions must be made because of pressure spikes.
After that, it's a piece of cake

Eric

[SIGP240]

You got multiple replies, I know. Too many for me to even have read.

The fix is simple. The case mouth has to be belled to the point when the bullet base sits INSIDE the flared case mouth before the seating stage. If you are lucky enough to be using bevel based bullets, then inspect for the bullet main body to internally caress the flared mouth. Yes, this will make the case wear out prematurely. Big deal, you can score a 1000 9mm cases for 10 Bucks or less, ask anybody. Also, if you look in the Midway catalog, you can buy expanders at non-typical diameters. My Dillon comes with a standard expander/funnel that could really over flare the case if not adjusted properly. Chances are, you are not going to find all your fired cases anyway. Also, for the 9mm, I would kindly advise the LEE Factory crimping/sizing die for the fourth or fifth stage (depends what you got for a loader). They cost a whole 10$. This way, if you are malforming the case, the cartridge has one final chance to be reshaped, so it will chamber, which is a good thing. Just don't forget that the 9mm headspaces on the case mouth, so NO deep roll crimp!! Also, for continuity of quality, make sure that you remove from your stock, the military 9mm rounds, as they are more stout and may take slightly different care in the reloading process. Also, tumbling media is so freaking cheap, 50# for 17$, just go one grade above10-14 and I don't think you will see any trapped grains. BTW, the decapping pin knocks them out. I do believe that decapped brass gets cleaner, but the primer pocket usually will not have that much residue in it in the first place to interfere with seating the new primer anyway. Dramatic pressure spikes are many times related to deeply seated bullets and the wrong powder/bullet combinations. But if you are rock'n'rollin, you may need a high pressure load like they use in the MP-40s to get plenty of recoil. Enjoy loading 9mm, my loads print under 1.5" at 25 yards thru a sandbagged P-210.

[OldmanFCSA]

Knock the primer out of 500 cases, bring cases to me, I will tumble in SS pins, you get to load in absolutely clean like new cases.

Try it - you will like it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

An unbeatable deal !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Spike]

The FAQ pages at the Lee website were right. The 9mm is a difficult caliber to load because, "the case is tapered, smaller at the top." I stumbled onto the advice to tumble the cases after resizing and depriming, for their pages are numerous and unorganized.

The results for the new batch are in:

Definitely tumble AFTER resizing and depriming. Now I am getting better clearance when using the case length gauge/trimmer. Before, the fit was too tight to turn the tool in the case.
Upon examining some factory ammo other than the Remington brand I use, I noticed I could tell where the bottom of the bullet was seated in their case. That is what my stuff is looking like now with no crushing or leaning. I may even get better results if I roll the cases around in an oily rag first.

My first batch? I've got a lot of bullet pulling to do... I had better get started.

Now I know why a lot of reloaders buy their 9mm. Bully to them.

You are working way too hard. I don't know what the problem is but I reload 9mm all the time with Lee equipment and don't deprime and size before cleaning or any tricks. I loaded 200 rounds in the last two day with mixed cases and had no problems.

[Spike]

Knock the primer out of 500 cases, bring cases to me, I will tumble in SS pins, you get to load in absolutely clean like new cases.

Try it - you will like it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

An unbeatable deal !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You, seriously need a new keyboard.

[Spike]

You got multiple replies, I know. Too many for me to even have read.

The fix is simple. The case mouth has to be belled to the point when the bullet base sits INSIDE the flared case mouth before the seating stage. If you are lucky enough to be using bevel based bullets, then inspect for the bullet main body to internally caress the flared mouth. Yes, this will make the case wear out prematurely. Big deal, you can score a 1000 9mm cases for 10 Bucks or less, ask anybody. Also, if you look in the Midway catalog, you can buy expanders at non-typical diameters. My Dillon comes with a standard expander/funnel that could really over flare the case if not adjusted properly. Chances are, you are not going to find all your fired cases anyway. Also, for the 9mm, I would kindly advise the LEE Factory crimping/sizing die for the fourth or fifth stage (depends what you got for a loader). They cost a whole 10$. This way, if you are malforming the case, the cartridge has one final chance to be reshaped, so it will chamber, which is a good thing. Just don't forget that the 9mm headspaces on the case mouth, so NO deep roll crimp!! Also, for continuity of quality, make sure that you remove from your stock, the military 9mm rounds, as they are more stout and may take slightly different care in the reloading process. Also, tumbling media is so freaking cheap, 50# for 17$, just go one grade above10-14 and I don't think you will see any trapped grains. BTW, the decapping pin knocks them out. I do believe that decapped brass gets cleaner, but the primer pocket usually will not have that much residue in it in the first place to interfere with seating the new primer anyway. Dramatic pressure spikes are many times related to deeply seated bullets and the wrong powder/bullet combinations. But if you are rock'n'rollin, you may need a high pressure load like they use in the MP-40s to get plenty of recoil. Enjoy loading 9mm, my loads print under 1.5" at 25 yards thru a sandbagged P-210.

tldr;

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/paragraph

[Seismic Sam]

BTW - I've got 9mm brass I scrounged nearly 30 years ago, and never had to trim it yet. Yes, if you resize first, then trimming will be a PITA, but if you go the route of tumbling, trimming (if you really feel the need), and then sizing and decapping, your whole process will run smoothly And yes, you do have to bell the case mouth JUST ENOUGH to allow the first 10 miles of the bullet to fit in the case. With jacketed ammo belling many be optional, but with cast bullets it is absolutely mandatory!!

[Seismic Sam]

The FAQ pages at the Lee website were right. The 9mm is a difficult caliber to load because, "the case is tapered, smaller at the top." I stumbled onto the advice to tumble the cases after resizing and depriming, for their pages are numerous and unorganized.

The results for the new batch are in:

Definitely tumble AFTER resizing and depriming. Now I am getting better clearance when using the case length gauge/trimmer. Before, the fit was too tight to turn the tool in the case.
Upon examining some factory ammo other than the Remington brand I use, I noticed I could tell where the bottom of the bullet was seated in their case. That is what my stuff is looking like now with no crushing or leaning. I may even get better results if I roll the cases around in an oily rag first.

My first batch? I've got a lot of bullet pulling to do... I had better get started.

Now I know why a lot of reloaders buy their 9mm. Bully to them.

Alright! I am totally confused! You say that you deprime and resize your cases, and NOW you are getting better clearance with your case trimmer.?? Before, the fit was too tight to turn the trimming tool in the case? Let's review: You fire the 9mm bullet in the gun, the case mouth expands to the size of the chamber, and if you try to reload an unsized case the bullet will just drop into the case, because the case has expanded to the chamber size. Now, you're telling me that your trimmer doesn't fit very well into a fired case, but it's a much easier fit after the case mouth is made SMALLER by the sizing die?? Please explain the logic in this.

[Eric Marleau]

I must be doing something wrong.
First, I start out with dirty, primed cases.
I then tumble them.
Then, with my dies set up for the type of bullet that I am going to load, with OAL determined, I run it through my Lee Classic Turret press, with preset charge drops, seat the bullet, then go to the Range and shoot.
My dies? I like Redding the best, but have many Lee dies, and have had NO problems with them. I use Redding and RCBS on my Dad's old Lyman All American turret press, and also my RCBS 6 hole turret press. The Lee on my Lee Classic turret press.

Man--it has seemed so simple for the past 40 years.

I have to rethink my technique

Sorry for the sarcasm, but this thread has gotten WAY too complicated.

With a new calibre, new dies, and finding a safe load, it will take me some period of time for the set up.
Going to the Range, and then testing different loads, and using an accuracy graph takes time. but its a lot of fun.
However, I try to keep it simple.
I have a crap load of guns, and I reload special for each firearm. They all take different reloads to achieve greatest accuracy. Again--lots of fun.
I sure don't over think myself into a petrified state.
Reloading isn't and shouldn't be "Rocket Science".

Eric

[Seismic Sam]

Well, Eric, if you have been doing it for 40 years like I have, then the method obviously works. The only quibble I would have is why not do it with dirty cases with the old primers in them, then resize and deprime, and never have to worry about media in the primer hole changing the ignition characteristic? I have heard 2nd, 3rd, and 4th hand stories about somebody's great uncle whoosis not bothering to pick out primer media and not having problems, but yours is the first actual account I have heard of long term success with this strategy.

As far as Mjollnir, I am still totally confused by how a fired 9mm case will not easily accept a neck reamer, but a resized 9mm case with a much tighter mouth will...

[Eric Marleau]

I might have not made myself clear Sam.
I never deprime before tumbling.
There have been times, when I had to tumble deprimed brass, and what a mess that has been. Not fun.

I hope this clears it up. The biggest, time consuming thing to do, is to deprime, then tumble brass.

After I shoot, I put my spent brass into containers, then, when I'm ready to tumble, I separate them so I don't get the 9mms stuck inside my .45ACPs, and do the same with my .44mags, .357, .45Colts etc.
I might save up enough that I have my tumbler running for a couple of days to catch up.

Eric