6.5 Grendel Help

[WolfTrack]

I have approx 70 rounds loaded that the bullets aren't seated deep enough.

I loaded them on a friend's Dillon press. He had everything set for a different bullet.
Mine sit out too far and engage the rifling. Unloading any loaded rounds requires mortaring the rifle. The easiest way to eject is to fire. Not exactly ideal for being in the woods.
I also want to avoid any possible overpressure problems.

I am in the southeast metro area.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you in advance.

[Seismic Sam]

So you didn't measure the OAL of the first round you loaded after it came off the press, and just chose to make up 70?? And you assumed in using your components on somebody else's press that everything would be in spec as the press was set up??? And BTW, where was the owner of the press when you were doing this, as he would have probably noticed that you were using a different bullet than he was. REALLY, REALLY bad assumptions and reloading practices on your part.

At least you're smart enough to realize that jamming the bullet into the rifling could produce some very serious pressure issues. About the only thing you can do now is go back to the same press or find somebody else with a 6.5 Grendel seating die, screw the seating stem in further, and smoosh the bullets further down in the case. I'm not going to even ask if you also used whatever powder charge that press was set up for with your different bullets.....

[Erud]

Not only those questions, but did you even try to read 3 complete reloading manuals from cover-to-cover before embarking on your one-way journey down this nightmarish road of death and madness? Did you ever stop to consider the children? Are you aware that attempting to load your own ammunition can and will kill you, leaving nothing but a pool of blood on the concrete behind your firing point?!?

You sir, are a monster.

[mmcnx2]

As much as it pains me to side with the reload ogre Sam, but not checking seating depth is pretty basic and stupid. These are the guys that give reloading a bad reputation.

[Erud]

As much as it pains me to side with the reload ogre Sam, but not checking seating depth is pretty basic and stupid. These are the guys that give reloading a bad reputation.

Give reloading a bad reputation with whom? The guy is clearly not an experienced reloader and made a simple mistake. He has now learned a real-life lesson that he most likely would not have learned by reading the chapter in the reloading manual that states "make sure your ammo is the right length". I bet he remembers next time.

OP:
I'm also in the SE metro and have Grendel dies. Shoot me a PM if you like, I'm sure we can get you straightened out pretty easily.

[cobb]

So now that WolfTrack has been fully flamed, how about some suggestions?

Now Sam, I can't believe you said this....

About the only thing you can do now is go back to the same press or find somebody else with a 6.5 Grendel seating die, screw the seating stem in further, and smoosh the bullets further down in the case.

If these loads have had the necks of the cases crimped because they are going to be used in an AR platform, wouldn't smooshing the bullets further in the case be a bad idea? Wouldn't that practice most likely collapse the case shoulder? Now I am making an assumption they are to be used in a AR type platform because they a 6.5 Grendel, therefore assuming there is a good possibility that they are crimped. I would suggest that these loads be pulled apart and start over with to reload.

[Seismic Sam]

I wasn't making any assumptions one way or another as to the kind of rifle the ammo was being used in, so I wasn't considering whether there was a crimp or not. Yes, it was chambered by Alexander Arms in an AR to begin with, but being based off the benchrest PPC cases, with the high BC long 6.5 bullets it could very well be used for long range accuracy in a bolt gun. In addition, 6.5 bullets appear to come both without crimp grooves and WITH crimp grooves. Trying to use a normal rifle seating die to put a crimp on a bullet with no cannelure would not produce good results. And IF it had been the case that the bullet did have a cannelure and that a crimp was applied, due to the fact that the finished round was too long to properly fit in the chamber, then it follows that the crimp was probably BELOW the cannelure anyway!!

[WolfTrack]

I do appreciate the HELPFULL responses.

These were loaded a couple of years ago, just before the guy moved across country. I finally got around to shooting it this last fall, but have been busy to get around to fixing this. I was looking forward to taking it out to the tree stand this past season, but realized there would be problems and went with something else.
All rounds went through his headspace 'guage,' so he said "they should be fine..." (alas, however).
Married living in an apartment doesn't lend itself to a reloading station so well, so that's why they sit unfixed.
He gave me the (Lapua) brass, powder, and primers. I provided the bullets. So, I won't complain much.
Other than the 2 pieces of brass lost in the set-up, the other rounds from the 100 pieces of brass were shot single loaded during the barrel break-in. That's why there are 70 (or so) rounds that need fixing.

Yes, these are for an AR and crimped.

Again, to those to which it applies, thank you for your helpfull repsonses.

[Seismic Sam]

Check out the thread on pictures of reloading setups. There are many that ARE set up in apartment closets, and my first reloading bench was set up in the coat closet for the apartment near the front door. And BTW, your buddy didn't do you any favors by checking all the ammo with a headspace gauge. That gauge is meant for checking if the CASE will properly fit in a 6.5 Grendel CHAMBER. It has nothing to do with the bullet at all, and you can use that gauge (and most people do) on empty resized cases to make sure the shoulder isn't too far forward or pushed too far back. You have three choices: 1. Get into handloading YOURSELF, which means you will have to spend money initially for some equipment, or 2. Find somebody in here with 6.5 Grendel dies who knows what he's doing, or 3. Cut you losses with this messed up ammo and just shoot factory stuff.

[grousemaster]

As much as it pains me to side with the reload ogre Sam, but not checking seating depth is pretty basic and stupid. These are the guys that give reloading a bad reputation.

Reloading has a bad reputation?

[yuppiejr]

As much as it pains me to side with the reload ogre Sam, but not checking seating depth is pretty basic and stupid. These are the guys that give reloading a bad reputation.

Give reloading a bad reputation with whom? The guy is clearly not an experienced reloader and made a simple mistake. He has now learned a real-life lesson that he most likely would not have learned by reading the chapter in the reloading manual that states "make sure your ammo is the right length". I bet he remembers next time.

OP:
I'm also in the SE metro and have Grendel dies. Shoot me a PM if you like, I'm sure we can get you straightened out pretty easily.

Simple mistakes with reloading can be both costly and deadly or both.... failing to confirm any measurements that are the foundation of a basic reloading formula (COL, powder weight...) is not a simple mistake any more than double charging a case and later blowing up your gun/yourself/your lane neigbor at the range would be. If something as simple as "make sure your cartridge matches the length stated in the book" gets missed how confident are you that the powder charge is correct, the crimp is correctly applied, etc...

The guy came here looking for free help with his reloads but demonstrated a total disregard for some pretty basic reloading safety practices and, arguably, sound gun handling techniques. He took heat for it because people here take these things seriously for good reason (implied/moral liability for the advice given, etc..)

Check the ego and deal with it. There is still plenty of good and FREE advice in this thread for the OP.

I agree with both cobb and Sam's perspectives on different topics. 1) ..break down the offending cartridges and start over or just switch to factory ammo. 2) You don't need a huge shelf full of expensive equipment or a ton of room to reload rifle cartridges but there's still a startup cost to ammortize (plus the added time commitment) that should be considered when deciding to buy vs reload ammo. A basic C or O frame single stage press, Lee Pacesetter dies, hand priming tool, powder scale, calipers, a loading block, reloading manual, and a powder funnel should run about $200, less if you shop used... Mount the press directly to a steel sawhorse or a section of 2x12 and C-clamp it to a countertop, etc.... and it should easily fit under a bed or in the corner of a closet when not in use.

[justaguy]

As much as it pains me to side with the reload ogre Sam, but not checking seating depth is pretty basic and stupid. These are the guys that give reloading a bad reputation.

Give reloading a bad reputation with whom? The guy is clearly not an experienced reloader and made a simple mistake. He has now learned a real-life lesson that he most likely would not have learned by reading the chapter in the reloading manual that states "make sure your ammo is the right length". I bet he remembers next time.

OP:
I'm also in the SE metro and have Grendel dies. Shoot me a PM if you like, I'm sure we can get you straightened out pretty easily.

Simple mistakes with reloading can be both costly and deadly or both.... failing to confirm any measurements that are the foundation of a basic reloading formula (COL, powder weight...) is not a simple mistake any more than double charging a case and later blowing up your gun/yourself/your lane neigbor at the range would be. If something as simple as "make sure your cartridge matches the length stated in the book" gets missed how confident are you that the powder charge is correct, the crimp is correctly applied, etc...

The guy came here looking for free help with his reloads but demonstrated a total disregard for some pretty basic reloading safety practices and, arguably, sound gun handling techniques. He took heat for it because people here take these things seriously for good reason (implied/moral liability for the advice given, etc..)

Check the ego and deal with it. There is still plenty of good and FREE advice in this thread for the OP.

I agree with both cobb and Sam's perspectives on different topics. 1) ..break down the offending cartridges and start over or just switch to factory ammo. 2) You don't need a huge shelf full of expensive equipment or a ton of room to reload rifle cartridges but there's still a startup cost to ammortize (plus the added time commitment) that should be considered when deciding to buy vs reload ammo. A basic C or O frame single stage press, Lee Pacesetter dies, hand priming tool, powder scale, calipers, a loading block, reloading manual, and a powder funnel should run about $200, less if you shop used... Mount the press directly to a steel sawhorse or a section of 2x12 and C-clamp it to a countertop, etc.... and it should easily fit under a bed or in the corner of a closet when not in use.

I agree some need to check the ego and deal with it, and its not the OP, and not only does he make the whole hobby of reloading look bad, now his "gun handling techniques" are being argued?

[Seismic Sam]

Thank you yuppiejr. To go back on my word, I actually WOULD like to know about this Dillon that was totally set up for the 6.5 Grendel, but with different bullets.

1. Were any adjustments made to the powder charge thrown, or was it just left as it was for the owner's bullets?

2. What weight were the bullets that were used by the owner, and what weight were the bullets you used? You get one 800 pound reloading troll demerit if you don't know. You get two demerits if your bullet was heavier than the one the press owner was using.

As far as why your loads came out too long while the 550's owners ammo was supposedly okay is a bit puzzling, seeing as bullets with similar profiles should come out of the seating die at about the same length. The fact that they did not suggests that two different bullets with significantly different nose profiles were used, because rifle seating dies generally work off the bullet ogive rather than just mashing down on the point of the bullet like a 45 ACP seating die. Once again, do you know what bullets the other guy was using, and you obviously can tell us what bullets you were using.

And last but not least, there is the issue of the owner of the press checking your finished loads with a headpsace gauge, which as I mentioned has NOTHING to do with checking the OAL of the loaded round. In addition, let your mind replay the "Larry the Cable Guy" commercial for heartburn pills, where he says "that's like checking your burgers after they're burnt!" The purpose of the headpsace gauge is to make sure the shoulder of the case is neither too far up (won't fit in the chamber with the bolt closed) or too far down, which will give you a headspace problem which will cause the base of the case to stretch, and eventually may cause the case head to blow open where the brass has been thinned out from the stretching. You are supposed to check this WHEN you are resizing your brass, and once you have got it right you lock the ring on the die and never mess with it again. But here we have your "buddy" checking headspace AFTER the ammo has been loaded?" What was he planning to do if his gauge had showed that your loaded ammo DID have a headspace problem?? OOOPS!! Seems to me that this guy wasn't totally up to speed on his own reloading practices, and then to have you show up with a significantly different bullet and use his press "as set up" is an invitation to a mishap of some sort.

So: Got answers to some or all of the above questions??

EDIT: And just for the record here, the purpose of this inquiry is not to flame the OP, but to find out what the heck exactly happened here. This is a real life OOOPS, and it would be interesting in finding out the details so everybody can see what went wrong and possibly why, so they can maybe see some gotchas they had never considered before.

[WolfTrack]

Here is one of the offending children next to a factory .223
I'm out of town, so it's all I have for reference pics of the loads.

Most of the detailed attention was directed to perfecting the powder load consitency and the primer seating.
The OAL fits a magazine. Not much free room to move, but they fit. I didn't like how they look, but was told "they should be fine" since they did go into a magazine. I trusted an experienced handloader, to my now-apparent error.
The problem came to light when trying to clear a loaded round from the rifle's chamber.

Again, these were loaded about 2 years ago when there wasn't anything for factory load offerings other than Alexander Arms' loads. This was JUST before Hornady started offering their initial load (which I have a small supply of now). The guy offered me brass, powder and primers as payment of sorts. All I had to provide was the projectiles. So, 100 rounds of Grendel ammo for about $25 was a bit hard to pass up at the time.
I researched potential loads which had worked for others in similar rifles. I didn't need anything worty of Camp Perry, just Minute of Whitetail 20-200 yards. As they sit, they're sub-MOA (but a PITA to clear a loaded round from the chamber, which doesn't lend itself too well if nothing passes my tree-stand that particular day). I clearly want them un-f****d.

[Seismic Sam]

Thank you. The fitting in the mag part is "sort of" an OAL measurement, but obviously it didn't work in this case. Only two things come to mind, and the first is that the gun you have has an extremely short throat. Perhaps so short that it's a machining mistake by the factory. I am not a fan of Alexander Arms, as they are the originator of the 50 Beowulf cartridge and upper which had all sorts of problems, including full case head collapses and reportedly some blown bolts.

http://www.mnguntalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=17845&p=196424&hilit=+beowulf#p196424

I am sure the 6.5 Grendel is fine as a cartridge, but that still leaves the question of whether Alexander Arms gave you a rifle with a (too?) short throat.

Looking at the case you loaded, I notice there appears to be a lot of cannelure above the crimp, so I am wondering if you crimped the case at the top of the cannelure, whether the extra 30 - 50 mils might be enough to get the bullet off the lands. As far as disassembling the rounds, go get a blue (or green?) clear plastic inertia bullet puller for $16.95 or so, and pull all the bullets. The puller has a foam pad at the bottom of the hammer head, so you can re-use the bullets no problem.

At this point, I think you need to get a clear answer as to how long a round your upper will tolerate, and to do this follow the directions by OldmanFCSA in this thread:

http://www.mnguntalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=29314&p=334206&hilit=cleaning+rod#p334206

My Hornady #8 Manual shows that all Hornady bullets reccomended for the 6.5 have a COL of 2.245" inches. If you find out that your upper won't accept a loaded round that is 2.245" from base to bullet tip, then the upper is defective and needs to be sent back to Alexander. Hopefully that won't be the case, but the fact that the loaded rounds fit in the mag could be a warning sign.

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out!