copper plated load data

[sgruenhagen44]

So is it just me or is copper plated load data hard to find for 44 mag? So far I have been only been able fo find data for my extreme 240 gr copper plated bulllets with accurate powder. I am pleased with how clean it burns (#7) but I'm looking for more data to keep my options open. I have had some guys tell me to just use same powder charges for lead bullets but they are not seated nearly as deep as my copper plated ones so I feel like this is not the best advice, plus the case would not crimp on the connule. I know ranier lead safe recommends lead bullet data but obvoiusly its a different bullet from my extremes. Both reloading manuals that I have used (Lee and Lyman) almost exclusively have jacketed bullet data. Just wondering if anyone else has had this same problem or do I just need to find another manual? and in case anyone is wondering, my current load is ... OAL-1.575, 15.2 gr of accur #7, 240gr copper plated extremes.

[Shipyard]

what are you rocking the loads out of? handgun/carbine? i've always used lead load data regardless of caliber.

you have plated bullets witha cannelure? you shouldn't need that much of a crimp unless you're shooting top end loads, and at the at that point you're over the reccommended speed for a plated - usually it's reccommended that plated be kept under 1200 fps.

my experience with plated in 44 mag is that the accuracy is terrible. i run berry's in 45 acp and they're great. you just don't get the performance out of plated at higher velocities.

in my opinion, given the voluem of shoortng 44 mag vs something like a 45, buying jacketed bullets isn't a whole lot more, it's easier and you get better results. when i hit the range i'll put 100 rounds or so through my 44 handcannon and the carbine put together, 100 rounds of 45 will last be about 20 minutes... i ususally bring the ammo can

FWIW, hope this helps some...

[sgruenhagen44]

what are you rocking the loads out of? handgun/carbine? i've always used lead load data regardless of caliber.

you have plated bullets witha cannelure? you shouldn't need that much of a crimp unless you're shooting top end loads, and at the at that point you're over the reccommended speed for a plated - usually it's reccommended that plated be kept under 1200 fps.

my experience with plated in 44 mag is that the accuracy is terrible. i run berry's in 45 acp and they're great. you just don't get the performance out of plated at higher velocities.

in my opinion, given the voluem of shoortng 44 mag vs something like a 45, buying jacketed bullets isn't a whole lot more, it's easier and you get better results. when i hit the range i'll put 100 rounds or so through my 44 handcannon and the carbine put together, 100 rounds of 45 will last be about 20 minutes... i ususally bring the ammo can

FWIW, hope this helps some...

I'm using a ruger super redhawk with a 9.5 inch barrel. I'm new to shooting this gun since I have just bought it. I actually thought the loads were quite accurate although I guess it could be better. Don't really know since I'm fairly new to shooting pistols and there is always room for improvement for me. I paid $80 bucks for 500 bullets, quite a bit cheaper then xtps. I usually shoot a minimum of 100 rounds in a range trip lol. I got addicted when I bought my black hawk.

[rugersol]

my current load is ... OAL-1.575, 15.2 gr of accur #7, 240gr copper plated extremes.

I have a AA7 240gr .44 load ... it's less powder than yours ... and jacketed bullets ... and I get 1,145fps.

As Shippy pointed out, it's recommended ya keep plated FPS down.

Based on loading other calibers with plated bullets ... and what ya've posted ... and what I've gotten ... my best guess is yer load is either very near, or over 1,200fps.

I'll echo Shippy's recommendation ... use jacketed bullets.

If ya like, Hodgdon/IMR publishes a free small handbook which details some .44 Mag "cowboy" loads ... with which, yer plated bullets'd be fine. AA7 would not otherwise be advisable for such loads.

[sgruenhagen44]

my current load is ... OAL-1.575, 15.2 gr of accur #7, 240gr copper plated extremes.

I have a AA7 240gr .44 load ... it's less powder than yours ... and jacketed bullets ... and I get 1,145fps.

As Shippy pointed out, it's recommended ya keep plated FPS down.

Based on loading other calibers with plated bullets ... and what ya've posted ... and what I've gotten ... my best guess is yer load is either very near, or over 1,200fps.

I'll echo Shippy's recommendation ... use jacketed bullets.

If ya like, Hodgdon/IMR publishes a free small handbook which details some .44 Mag "cowboy" loads ... with which, yer plated bullets'd be fine. AA7 would not otherwise be advisable for such loads.

Yea, I believe the manual said my velocity is about 1,226 fps.

[rugersol]

my current load is ... OAL-1.575, 15.2 gr of accur #7, 240gr copper plated extremes.

I have a AA7 240gr .44 load ... it's less powder than yours ... and jacketed bullets ... and I get 1,145fps.

As Shippy pointed out, it's recommended ya keep plated FPS down.

Based on loading other calibers with plated bullets ... and what ya've posted ... and what I've gotten ... my best guess is yer load is either very near, or over 1,200fps.

I'll echo Shippy's recommendation ... use jacketed bullets.

If ya like, Hodgdon/IMR publishes a free small handbook which details some .44 Mag "cowboy" loads ... with which, yer plated bullets'd be fine. AA7 would not otherwise be advisable for such loads.

Yea, I believe the manual said my velocity is about 1,226 fps.

With a 9.5in bbl, I'd guess maybe closer to 1,300fps.

[jspace]

If the manufacturer says to use lead data, then that's probably what you want to use.
Quick question though - Why are you trying to push those bullets so fast?
I would think someone would want to use the plated bullets for cowboy loads to try to cut down the smoke over regular lead.

[sgruenhagen44]

If the manufacturer says to use lead data, then that's probably what you want to use.
Quick question though - Why are you trying to push those bullets so fast?
I would think someone would want to use the plated bullets for cowboy loads to try to cut down the smoke over regular lead.

The manufacture doesn't say to use lead data. The ranier lead safes say too. I'm using extremes. the data straight out of the lee reloading manual is starting load 15.2 of aa #7 at 1.575 OAL with a 240 gr copper plated bullet at around 1220 some feet per second. I'm using the minimum end. The manual even says I could Start at 18 gr of AA#9 at around 1400 fps. I found that excessive a bit, part of the reason I'm using the the #7. I am new to reloading so pretty much all my loads are all just from the lee
reloading manual and are the starting grains for the charge and depending if the bullet has a conule or or not which I try to crimp on, I go a little longer then the MIN OAL. So far these xtremes are the only bullet I have used that have a conule. Otherwise I just have used hornady swc or missouri bullet company. Missouri kinda sucked cuz there was so much smoke from the bullet lube. Looked like I had a black powder ruger.

[gyrfalcon]

From Berrys MFG:

FAQ: How fast can I shoot these bullets?
Velocities depend on the caliber, but as a rule of thumb, we recommend you don't shoot our plated bullets over 1200 feet-per-second. Our 44's actually shoot best around 1150 fps. 45's are generally good at 850-900 fps. Our bullets are not recommended for magnum velocities.

If you exceed the specifications the plating can be damaged or stripped away. This will give you fast but highly inaccurate reloads.

[sgruenhagen44]

From Berrys MFG:

FAQ: How fast can I shoot these bullets?
Velocities depend on the caliber, but as a rule of thumb, we recommend you don't shoot our plated bullets over 1200 feet-per-second. Our 44's actually shoot best around 1150 fps. 45's are generally good at 850-900 fps. Our bullets are not recommended for magnum velocities.

If you exceed the specifications the plating can be damaged or stripped away. This will give you fast but highly inaccurate reloads.

Ok so you're proposing dropping my charge below the starting point? Like I have said before, I'm new to reloading so I pretty much try to follow the Lee manual. How much do you think I should reduce the load. I use a Lee auto disk pro, so maybe just the next cavity size down from 15.2 gr? Can't remember off hand what disk cavity size I'm currently using.

[jspace]

The manufacture doesn't say to use lead data. The ranier lead safes say too. I'm using extremes. the data straight out of the lee reloading manual is starting load 15.2 of aa #7 at 1.575 OAL with a 240 gr copper plated bullet at around 1220 some feet per second. I'm using the minimum end. The manual even says I could Start at 18 gr of AA#9 at around 1400 fps. I found that excessive a bit, part of the reason I'm using the the #7. I am new to reloading so pretty much all my loads are all just from the lee
reloading manual and are the starting grains for the charge and depending if the bullet has a conule or or not which I try to crimp on, I go a little longer then the MIN OAL. So far these xtremes are the only bullet I have used that have a conule. Otherwise I just have used hornady swc or missouri bullet company. Missouri kinda sucked cuz there was so much smoke from the bullet lube. Looked like I had a black powder ruger.

I understand you aren't using Ranier's. I was simply saying if you are unsure of what load data to use, ask the manufacturer. They know their product. Additionally, I will echo what others have said that IN GENERAL plated bullets are not as strong as jacketed, and that it is USUALLY advised to use lead data.
Accurate has this listed:
No.7 240 MCB SWC 14.7 1,180 16.3 1,341 34,539 1.560
That's a starting load of 14.7gr No. 7 to push a 240gr Missouri semi-wadcutter at an estimated 1,180FPS with a 1.560 COL, since there are no headings there. Barrel: 8.275" ■ Twist: 1-20" ■ Primer: WIN WLP
They also have Ranier listed under jacketed:
No.7 240 RAN FP 14.0 1,163 15.6 1,322 32,451 1.575

I know neither of these are the exact bullet you are using, but it should hopefully give you an idea of where you are in relation to min/max.
From here:
http://www.accuratepowder.com/load-data/

[gyrfalcon]

Ok so you're proposing dropping my charge below the starting point? Like I have said before, I'm new to reloading so I pretty much try to follow the Lee manual. How much do you think I should reduce the load. I use a Lee auto disk pro, so maybe just the next cavity size down from 15.2 gr? Can't remember off hand what disk cavity size I'm currently using.

I'm not trying to proposing anything, just pointing out that many plated bullets may have issues at higher velocities.

While I don't have a ton of reloading data handy, from looking at the Alliant website they have loads data for 240gr lead bullets which are all below 1000fps:

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/ ... ulletid=52

Example:
44 Rem Magnum
240 gr cast LSWC
Green Dot
CCI 300
Max Grains 7
FPS 901 (from 7.5" barrel)

Perhaps you're using the wrong powder/bullet combination?

I would echo the advice of others and recommend contacting X-Treme Bullets (or whoever makes the bullet you're using) for further product information.

[sgruenhagen44]

well pretty soon I'll be out of bullets anyway. I'm thinking I might just go to jacketed. Either 180 gr or 240 gr XTPs. Plenty of load data for those. I have yet to even try a jacketed bullet.

[Shipyard]

many different sources list different min and max loads. there are cases where one manuals max is pretty close to anothers min

reloading isn't an exact science (cue a Sam rant when he's back from paradise ) it's incredibly important to read manuals from a variety of sources and gather load data from several REPUTABLE and TRUSTED sources when working up a load.

you're doing fine so far man, keep pluggin into the rabbit hole and gather more info. i know when i started out, i was pretty frustrated over the whole plated bullet concept too.

my advice to people starting out is to just bite the bullet (pun! ) and start with high quality components - new, fresh brass, jacketed bullets with their own load data (i.e. hornady xtp's - lots of load data from Hornady for that specific bullet type), and a mainline powder (unique seems to work for most EVERYTHING and there is a lot of lodings for it most standard calibers....)

get some groundwork of success and understnading with a couple loads and then a lot of the nuances become easier to wrap your head around. i still remember when i put the first 3 rounds of my first ever handloads through a 9mm. i still had all my fingers both eyes and my pistol and i felt liek going home and making up 10,000 rounds on my single stage

[dleong]

well pretty soon I'll be out of bullets anyway. I'm thinking I might just go to jacketed. Either 180 gr or 240 gr XTPs. Plenty of load data for those. I have yet to even try a jacketed bullet.

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at the accuracy and consistency you'll get with the XTPs, especially with a revolver as accurate as your long-barrelled Super Redhawk. This is typical of the kind of accuracy I'm getting with the Hornady 240 gr. XTP projectiles out of my 10.5" Super Blackhawk:



Those shots were taken offhand at 74 feet, just last Sunday at the BPR. My current recipe uses the aforementioned 240 gr. XTP projectile atop 23.6 gr. of W296 at an OAL of 1.605", lit off with a WLP primer. Average velocity measured at about 10 feet from the muzzle is approximately 1490 fps.

Not to add fuel to the fire, but for what it's worth, I've had no problems in the past pushing Berry's 240 gr. FP copper-plated projectiles to about 1370 fps out of my SBH, using 19.5 gr. of WC820 milsurp powder. No plating separation issues were encountered, but I could never get this load to group better than 3" at 25 yards, and eventually abandoned it in favour of the XTP load.