Is it safe to shoot .452 bullets in 45acp?

View · by **Flyby** on Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:05 pm

Ill start by saying that I just recently started reloading 45 acp and the other day at Scheels I picked up a box Berry's 185gr jacketed round nose bullets. My reloading manual says that 45 acp bullets should be .451 in diameter and these bullets that I just picked up say they are .452. My question is whether or not these will be safe to shoot through my 1911 and if an extra thousandth of an inch makes that much difference. I have searched a couple of other forums and haven't found a real definite answer on this subject, also I checked Berry's website and they list these bullets just as 45cal NOT 45 acp or 45 lc etc. I did load a few into some cases and they went fine and they cycle through the gun good when I rack the slide but I just want to hold off shooting them until I know a little more. Thanks

View · by **TTS** on Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:35 pm

They are fine, lead and plated bullets are most often .452 for 45ACP loads.

I have loaded tens of thousands of Berry's plated and never had a problem.

ETA: Work up using lead bullet load data.

View · by **Stradawhovious** on Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:51 pm

Have you slugged your barrel? The .452 might even be more suited than the .451.

View · by **Seismic Sam** on Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:33 pm

Good Lord!! A cautious and intelligent new reloader who asks questions first before firing off his newly produced ammo!! You have already gotten your answer, and I might as well add a few more bits of information. The 45ACP is an extraordinarily low pressure cartridge with a SAAMI limit of 21,000 PSI, and with a bullet that big in diameter an extra mil is only .22% (or 1.0022 times) larger than a 451 bullet. If you were shooting a max load with a copper jacketed bullet in a Smith 460 (SAAMI pressure of 65,000 PSI), going up a mil in bullet diameter could be questionable, but that's an extreme case.

And to go to the ultimate extreme, PO Ackley himself many years ago decided to debunk the concept of larger bullets causing extreme pressures by jury rigging a 1903 Springfield 30-06 rifle to hold a 45 ACP round against the bolt face, (the 45 ACP and 30-06 have the same rim and base size...) hid behind a tree, and pulled the trigger with a string. The round went off, and a 30 caliber jacketed bullet with a lot of lead extruded out the back of the jacket was recovered. The 45 ACP case was fine, as was the rifle. That being said, there are 22 caliber cartridges that use .223" diameter jacketed bullets, while most use .224" jacketed bullets, and using a .224 bullet in a .223" rifle can cause problems, so your caution will ALLWAYS be justified. If you happen to be on the West end of the Broadway Bridge, I live underneath, and I would like to reward you for your common sense and caution by giving you one of Shippy's bottles of Night Train, which he will never miss after he passes out.

Sincerely yours,

The 800 lb. Reloading Troll under the bridge...

View · by **tman** on Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:12 am

I don't reload (yet), but that would've been one of my questions. Thanks for asking.

Sent from my iPhone using that app which shall not be named.

View · by **Flyby** on Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:21 pm

Thanks for the responses Im going to the range tomorrow to try them out.

View · by **noylj** on Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:45 pm

This is the kind of question that can be answered by any of the numerous reloading manuals that exist and EVERY reloader should have read at least once.
Here is something to think about: you can even fire 0.454" lead bullets in your .45 Auto--it's been done since before 1920.
Next, your barrel groove diameter can range from 0.450" to 0.454", and your jacketed bullets should be THE SAME as the groove diameter and your lead bullets (or thinly-plated bullets) need to be AT LEAST 0.001" larger than groove diameter.
SAAMI specification
( http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC_Dr ... omatic.pdf )
for .45 Auto calls for a nominal 0.452" jacketed bullet, with a range of 0.449-0.452" and a nominal 0.453" for lead bullets, with a range of 0.450-0.453".
This isn't rocket science and tolerances just aren't that tight.

View · by **noylj** on Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:45 pm

This is the kind of question that can be answered by any of the numerous reloading manuals that exist and EVERY reloader should have read at least once.
Here is something to think about: you can even fire 0.454" lead bullets in your .45 Auto--it's been done since before 1920.
Next, your barrel groove diameter can range from 0.450" to 0.454", and your jacketed bullets should be THE SAME as the groove diameter and your lead bullets (or thinly-plated bullets) need to be AT LEAST 0.001" larger than groove diameter.
SAAMI specification
( http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC_Dr ... omatic.pdf )
for .45 Auto calls for a nominal 0.452" jacketed bullet, with a range of 0.449-0.452" and a nominal 0.453" for lead bullets, with a range of 0.450-0.453".
This isn't rocket science and tolerances just aren't that tight.

View · by **nframe** on Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:27 am

Quite a few years ago I bought some Mag-tech bullets that were .452".(they were cheap, this was before things started going up) I still had some winchesters that were .451", both were 230 grain rn fmj. I tried a test by loading 12 of each bullet in loads that were otherwise identical. Same case,powder,charge,primer,crimp,and oal . The charge was 6.5 grains of unique if it matters.I shot them over my Oehler chrono and the 452s averaged 840 fps and the 451s did 825. The things that I did not compare were bullet hardness and jacket thickness. I shot them in a 45acp revolver. the fired primers looked the same, and groups were not noticeably different.

View · by **bobbydamit** on Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:07 am

Wow, is this place full of Brain cells/experience. I have found a new time passer, just reading these threads. I shoot alot of Ruger Black powder .45's and it has a loading piston under the bbl that pushes a round ball into each cylinder. This results in a nice, full circle saved band of lead, and a great seal over the powder. Now back in the day, I was told by an old old BP guy, that if my loads did not shave the ball while entering the cylinder, do not use that lead as it is undersized by his standards.

He said it will not produce as good a seal, can contribute to chain firing, and yes, I still use grease over all cylinders, and a greased patch over the powder as well, and may not be consistent when target shooting. Now, he was a purist, but from this thread it all makes perfect sense. He said not to ever worry how much it shaves the ball, as it will all go down the bbl just fine. So, ergo, a bit larger cast lead is not a problem, and maybe is a good thing, especially in a BP, as long as your loaded cartridge fits into the cylinder of a std revolver, or drops all the way in the bbl of your pistol. Is this all correct, or, as O'Reilly says, " where am I going wrong here?"

View · by **bobbydamit** on Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:15 am

Stradawhovious wrote:Have you slugged your barrel? The .452 might even be more suited than the .451.

Since the guy is admitted "new' to this loading thing. And not shy about asking question, as some are, please explain "Slugged" when referring to his barrel. It is a great test of ones gun bbl, an d It will help anyone not so familiar with this term. Plus the shy ones will not have to ask you the dreaded, " what does that mean" :oops:

Thanks in advance Strad., for the explanation.

View · by **Stradawhovious** on Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:01 pm

bobbydamit wrote:
Stradawhovious wrote:Have you slugged your barrel? The .452 might even be more suited than the .451.

Since the guy is admitted "new' to this loading thing. And not shy about asking question, as some are, please explain "Slugged" when referring to his barrel.

Sluging a barrel is pretty simple. You take a soft lead "slug" that is slightly ( a few thou) larger than your bore. Push it through the barrel so that the lead slug forms itself to the lands and grooves of your particular barrel.

As far as what to use as a slug? Soft lead works best. Some folks use fishing lures, other folks buy specially made lead slugs, others make their own. I've heard of folks melting lead into a fired case, then removing the brass jacket. in straight walled pistol cartridges you can use the whole slug, or cut it down. In necked cartridges just use the portion that fills the neck area of the case.

Either way, grease up the slug with sizing wax or some other gun friendly lubricant and use a wooden dowel to drive the slug through the barrel from breach to muzzle. Measure from groove to groove, (biggest diameter portion of the slug) not land to land and you will have the measurement for the correct sized bullet. For .45 ACP it will generally be somewhere between .451 to .454.

Hope this helps! If not, there are several articles on the intrawebz, and many youtube videos out there to help you.

Cross section of a barrel with nominclature.

Fishing weights folks tend to use....

What they look like after the barrel is slugged.

Also, this setp is not terribly necessary for normal applications wih modern firearms. You can use .451 or .452 no problem with your .45 ACP. If you are looking to roll your own ammo for the purposes of accuracy, or loading for an antique, or surplus firearm your best potential is with using the correct bullet diameter.

View · by **Countryfried Frank** on Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:04 pm

bobbydamit wrote:Since the guy is admitted "new' to this loading thing. And not shy about asking question, as some are, please explain "Slugged" when referring to his barrel. It is a great test of ones gun bbl, an d It will help anyone not so familiar with this term. Plus the shy ones will not have to ask you the dreaded, " what does that mean"
Thanks in advance Strad., for the explanation.

Slugging a barrel is when you push a soft lead ball (slug) down your barrel so you can accurately measure the diameter of the lands and grooves. This info can be used to diagnose issues and to determine the best size bullet to use/cast. There are a ton of videos on youtube detailing the process. I haven't had the need to do it myself but I imagine it will be on the 'to do' list if I ever start casting bullets.

View · by **Flyby** on Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:17 pm

Well i fired 50 of my new rounds as well as 20 factory rounds to compare and i couldnt tell any differance between the 2 when shooting. Accuracy was great and cycling was 100% so needless to say I was impressed. Ive never heard of the term slugging a barrel so I just might have to try it to my springfield when I feel up to it.

View · by **bobbydamit** on Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:58 pm

Flyby wrote:Well i fired 50 of my new rounds as well as 20 factory rounds to compare and i couldnt tell any differance between the 2 when shooting. Accuracy was great and cycling was 100% so needless to say I was impressed. Ive never heard of the term slugging a barrel so I just might have to try it to my springfield when I feel up to it.

Congrats Flyby:
And thanks to all for the slugging explanation. We need to remember that the guys who are afraid to ask questions, cuz we make them feel dumb, are the ones who will hurt themselves, or others at a range, when a cylinder, action or bbl blows up in his face and maybe yours. So encourage any questions, even those which seem silly, and keep the explanations simple so we never hear horror stories like ones I've heard from "range happenings". Notice I didn't call them accidents, as mistakes made in loading due to ignorance, are not accidents, and are avoidable thanks places like this.. By the way. as seen above, the fishing EGG sinkers are the best for slugging, and they come in many different sizes and are dead soft. No Melting necessary.