squib? question 168gr. BTHP

[qualcorp]

So what do you all think happened to cause this bullet to become stuck in the breach or barrel of 700 308? Was at noisy outdoor range with another member, visiting, I believe I pulled the trigger and click nothing ,thinking I didn’t cycle earlier shot, pulled the bolt ejecting a what I thought to be a spent casing. Only when trying to load another shell that wouldn’t lock up did I realize something was not right. Isn’t it unusual for a riffle round to do this? Thoughts…

[farmerj]

improper seating? or missed powder charge.

Reloaded just long enough that the landing grabbed the bullet and/or, the primer was enough to set the bullet into the rifling. Can't really tell from the pictures how far it was into the landings.

did ANY powder come out when you ejected the case?

[Seismic Sam]

Well, you're not a n00b and you have a good head on your shoulders, so I'm not going to warm up the charcoal. That being said, however, you made some sort of egregious, potentially life threatening mistake here and lived to thell the tale. Dunno what kind of setup you have, but it would appear that you failed to put powder in one of your cases. Again, without knowing the setup, can't tell if you fundamentally screwed up and didn't fill a case, had a powder measure malfunction and didn't check the case, and it OBVIOUS that you don't take a full block of 50 charged cases directly under a ceiling light like I have been doing for 40 years, and checking that the depth of the powder in each case is equal. THEN you would have caught it no matter what.

Contributing risk factors were a noisy range (minor), and yakking with a friend too much and letting your attention wander (major), and ignoring a warning sign that something very unusual happened and that you were about to make a life threating mistake. (Super major!!) If something unusual happens, you STOP everything right there and start asking questions, rather than making a false assumption and just jacking another round into the chamber. If the bullet had gone a bit farther into the lands or you had slammed the bolt home hard enough to push the bullet in the new round down in the case, you'd most likely be in Regions ICU right now, and then have gotten to meet me and Sasha when what was left of you got shipped up to Bethesda for rehab. And I'm not joking or being sarcastic in any way. We've had multiple "clients" where the whole front quarter of their skull was completely missing from some sort of unimaginable catastrophe, and they were still alive to some degree. This doesn't bother Sasha at all, but that particular sight is one of the most jarring ones that I encounter, and I have to suck it up extra hard to keep a straight face.

You need to rethink your entire reloading process, and then make a decision as to whether you want to quit being a reloader, or kick it up about TEN notches and decide to become an obsessive-compulsive jerk like me and double check everything and check every round you load. Oh, and BTW, this isn't like making a mistake while loading up 5,000 rounds of 9mm either. I would assume that you had some sort of expectation of improved accuracy to be loading .308, so you weren't loading thousands of rounds, and you should have taken the time to do it right with however many dozen or hundred rounds you had loaded.

I'm glad you're still in one piece, and I hope you STAY that way. This is probably the biggest wake-up call you will get in your entire life, and I hope you make the most of it.

[qualcorp]

Well….I’m feeling just a little foolish today. It took a while for this event and the probable cause to sink in. As I’m removing the stuck bullet from my 308 BOLT ACTION RIFFLE BBL(and not the 308 auto loader), I let wifee know that while not being set up to load riffle rounds currently I took advantage of another members generous offer to help me out with loading some up for the range event, a buddy, with a Different loading system and procedure all together (I use Dillon 550 for pistol rounds only at present). I realize everyone makes mistakes and using these rounds made by someone else was mine and mine alone. Scary shet brother! In this respect I truly am an idiot. For Christ sake Eight months ago I was diagnosed with stage four cancer and had a T3 tumor removed at Mayo, cancer free today only to do something like this is just retarded. Believe in a guardian angle…you bet! ..and a little bit of luck never hurts. Thank god I’m not the type; feeling a little resistance, jamb the bolt closed anyway, for it was very close to locking in and there was no spilled powder residue. For now I plan on sticking with pistol loads until such time I have all the necessary items for my room and press. Picked up an extra set of eyes, the wife, wants to get involved in this aspect of my hobby and ‘oversee’ my reloading technique; She shoots with me and uses my pistol ammo so is only right she partake in the fun. Thank You-J

[Seismic Sam]

Interesting. One of the people with half of the front of his skull missing is at a hospice where I work, and he's dying of cancer. Oddly enough, this hardly seems to affect his motor skills, termperament, or speech. Gee, you were what, like 50 mils away from pretty much being his half brother, except cancer is way gentler than having your face 6" away from a 120,000 PSI pressure spike that blows pieces of your rifle back into the right side of your head. Hell, the overpressure alone could turn some of you into a very messy milkshake.

One last thing: You should consider yourself criticized for trusting some butthead reloader that you don't know AT LEAST as well as your own family. Seriously. WTF were you thinking?? While there are a few, and VERY few people in here that I would trust to shoot their reloads, I doubt Oldman and I would EVER swap loads. We can both load anything we want and know the ropes, and shooting somebody else's reloads has that same yucky feeling as borrowing somebody's toothbrush. If I wanted to load 50 BMG I'd go out and buy all the "toys" for it myself!! Whoopee!! New toys to buy!! Borrowing reloading equipment is like renting a Porsche Turbo for a day instead of OWNING one. Big difference in price, but just as big a difference in pride of ownership.

And I have to admit, being a stage 4 cancer survivor, which is VERY rare, and then turning around being a fraction of an inch away from from killing yourself or WORSE is about the cruelest twist of fate I have ever heard of. I would agree that the Lord wants your ass on this earth for a definite reason, and if I were you I'd try to figure out what it is. I have survived several "should have been fatal" events, and thought a medical device that I was developing that could save 3,000 lives a year in America alone was the reason, and the project was cancelled by idiots and finally died on the vine. After that I kind of gave up on the whole "I'm here for a reason" concept, and never went to church again. Still don't go, but now I'm helping the dying and critically injured (just like you almost were...) 4 times a week, and the number of lives we have touched is probably in the upper 30,000 range. You have something out there waiting for you to find it, and you probably won't recognize it when you first see it. Good luck, and STFA from other people's handloads!!

[JohnGageMN]

Every once in a while I'll have a friend helping me working on my motorcycle. Some of them used to get insulted when I would go back and check their work and re-torque any bolts they tightened. I look at them and say: "it's not your ass that's gonna get ground into the pavement if this falls off."

[Seismic Sam]

BTW, qualcorp, have you had a "discussion" with your "friend" who screwed up the loads you shot and almost got you hurt?? Just curious how all that worked out. I know I'd be royally pissed and show up with a bed of lit charcoal and a whole gallon of n00b sauce and some freshy sharpened kebab skewers for the tasty bits, but I'm an 800 lb. troll and you're not. Be assured I am NOT interested in finding out who this "friend" was, and I cetrainly don't want to see any names posted, but I am curious about how that all worked out for you. Missing putting powder in one of 50 - 100 .308 cases is a pretty severe level of negligence as far as I'm concerned.

[Seismic Sam]

So what do you all think happened to cause this bullet to become stuck in the breach or barrel of 700 308? Was at noisy outdoor range with another member, visiting, I believe I pulled the trigger and click nothing ,thinking I didn’t cycle earlier shot, pulled the bolt ejecting a what I thought to be a spent casing. Only when trying to load another shell that wouldn’t lock up did I realize something was not right. Isn’t it unusual for a riffle round to do this? Thoughts…

Things that nearly got you blown apart need to be analyzed right down to the last detail, but this will be my final post. If the gun went "Click", then the bolt HAD to have been cycled to reset the firing pin, or NOTHING would have happened at all, so it COULDN'T have been that your forgot to eject the previous round. I get the feeling that whatever emotional attachment you may have for this friend is not letting you really come to grips with the full magnitude of how big and potentially lethal a screwup this was on his part. Whatever, that's your problem and not mine, and you'll either come to terms with it or rationalize it away and maybe not take away as much as you could have from this incident. Certainly the weather is MUCH better in Egypt right now, so who wouldn't want to be swimming in De Nile??

[qualcorp]

I receved this from my friend who made the round in question as follows;

"Jim, i have rethought every possible scenario of when I loaded your .308 and I just can't believe I failed to charge a case. Here is why,
I place all 50 cases Neck Side down in the loading block (all upside down) when I begin. I then drop my powder into the pan and short throw by at least .02 grains short. I then hand trickle the remaining powder to reach my desired charge (ie: 45.7gr). Then and ONLY THEN do I remove the case from the loading block and I pour the powder into the cases one by one. Then, and Only then, are the cases placed upright in the loading block. I do it this way to assure I can't miss charging a case nor can I double charge a case, using this tecnique. I then take each case, one by one to the press and check the powder charge visibly, before I place a bullet and then seat it.
I believe the problem with that round was a faulty primer. I believe it didn't fully fire and only partially ignited a portion of the powder.
I am asking you to inquire if a faulty primer could cause this Squib issue? I know I am Not beyond making a mistake. I thought long and hard about my process for loading rifle cases and I believe it is fool proof as long as I repeat it every single time. I have loaded Every single rifle round with the same procedure

[qualcorp]

So what do you all think happened to cause this bullet to become stuck in the breach or barrel of 700 308? Was at noisy outdoor range with another member, visiting, I believe I pulled the trigger and click nothing ,thinking I didn’t cycle earlier shot, pulled the bolt ejecting a what I thought to be a spent casing. Only when trying to load another shell that wouldn’t lock up did I realize something was not right. Isn’t it unusual for a riffle round to do this? Thoughts…

Things that nearly got you blown apart need to be analyzed right down to the last detail, but this will be my final post. If the gun went "Click", then the bolt HAD to have been cycled to reset the firing pin, or NOTHING would have happened at all, so it COULDN'T have been that your forgot to eject the previous round. I get the feeling that whatever emotional attachment you may have for this friend is not letting you really come to grips with the full magnitude of how big and potentially lethal a screwup this was on his part. Whatever, that's your problem and not mine, and you'll either come to terms with it or rationalize it away and maybe not take away as much as you could have from this incident. Certainly the weather is MUCH better in Egypt right now, so who wouldn't want to be swimming in De Nile??

The saved bullet had some residue, (click photo is large file)burnt sticky looking black charred hanging on the very end, not sure it shows up in the photo that well. Was not much at all. Unfortunately, because of outdoor range dirt and contaminates, the brass went immediately into the tumbler. That day I was shooting the riffle tripod fixed on a black mat that covered the range table completely and there were no unspent powder grains to be seen, I looked. Here is a better photo of the bullet showing residue, hope this helps. Oh I should add what I’ve gained thus far; don’t share loads with anyone. I think also it might be helpful if I didn’t bring so many firearms with, consecrating more on a couple, this might well have made for more evidence being documented rather than a quick note. That day I had four riffles, and six handguns in eight different calibers, and several loads with. I’ll be able to leave the pack mule at home, wait I’m the pack mule. I’ll be looking forward to learning riffle, processing the 308 round.

[Seismic Sam]

The crud on the back of the bullet DOES indicate unburned powder, as just the primer has hardly any residue and I doubt all of it together would amount to as much as is on the base of the bullet. Other causes could be a firing pin with crud on it or obstrcting the hole, and I HAVE had erratic ignition on my Smith 500 due to this. Have also had erratic ignition from a charge that was too light on my Smith 500, and in that case I did wind up with a wad of powder sort of clumped together in the case. In a .308 case a clump of powder couldn't come out of the case, so it probably stayed in there. Tumbling all the brass right after you got home was a HUGE, MAJOR mistake. After a near-KABOOM experience you leave EVERYTHING the way it is so you can check it out later. What happened to the unfired loads after this happened?? Have all the bullets been pulled and the charges weighed?? PLEASE don't tell me you had a near death experience and then finished off the remaining box of loads!!

While the guy's method does sound pretty close to foolproof, I still think checking all 50 cases AFTER filling lets you know all the stuff is equal in the block, and that equivalency check is missing from his procedure. Unfortunately, I think the chances of a faulty "light" primer are practically nil, and I've never heard of this being a documented problem. Plus if you know the way they make these things, it's pretty hard to not fill up the hole with priming goop on the assembly plate, so I'm not buying a light primer load as the most probable option. I doubt it's even close to being most probable. I would go with partially obstructed firing pin 1st, and incorrect powder weight 2nd, and maybe some leftover concob plugging up the primer hole as #3. Does the guy deprime and polish his brass, or the other way around?

[qualcorp]

I went back to factory after the squib was cleared, the function was fine. Riffle has only 30-40 rounds down the pipe since it was put together in current configuration, trigger, stock, removable mag, scope and sling, using a Model 700 SPS Tactical AAC-SD as a base riffle. Basically a new riffle just broke in and the last I would ever think would be problematic. The brass was purchased and the remaining looked like new. Only loaded up fifty. Was purchased as clean once fired. Looking at the now tumbled cases they look fine-consistent. No pressure signs.

[Seismic Sam]

Well, did you have any of the handloads left that weren't shot?? What happened to those? And the primer from the squib should look VERY differnt from a normal 50,000+ .308 load. Even if the firing pin dents are identical, there's NO way a squib load could push the primer back against the bolt and flatten it out like a normal load. One of those primers HAS to look distinctly different. There is NO way around that!

And there's another way to pick out the squib case. Take out the decapping spindle for the die, and just resize all of the cases. The squib load should go into the die with almost no pressure, bevause there was very little pressure in it when it was fired. THEN you will have the squib case for sure. If it doesn't turn up, your yakking and mishap got the better of you, and the case is probably in one of the eight or nine gun bags or a side pocket or something.

[qualcorp]

got it and on it as we speak all look the same damit....I look them over again under mag

[Seismic Sam]

And if it was an incomplete ignition, the powder may be left inside in kind of a gunked up mass. Another reason to take the depriming rod out of the die. If there is gunked up powder left, then you know it was incomplete combustion, but you won't know if it was a gunked up firing pin or a faulty primer or a light powder load. If you have the left over reloads, pull every one and weigh the powder charge as close as you can to .1 grain.