no more gunstop until john is back

[Rodentman]

Love him or not, I'm sure we all wish him a speedy recovery. I know when I was hurt the support I got from family and a few coworkers meant a great deal to me. Lying in a bed alone at HCMC was bad enough. I hope he gets back on his feet soon and that the business does well.

[BBeckwith]

Love him or not, I'm sure we all wish him a speedy recovery. I know when I was hurt the support I got from family and a few coworkers meant a great deal to me. Lying in a bed alone at HCMC was bad enough. I hope he gets back on his feet soon and that the business does well.

Well said, while I may gripe about the service I have experienced that is nothing in the realm of all things important. Just as certain folks here are fighting a myriad of health issues I count my self lucky as I have been there twice, and come out in the positive end with the help of my doctors, friends and family. Hoping for a quick return to as near normal as possible for John.

[MarkL]

Back in May I made my first trip to the store to get everything I needed for reloading. The biggest reason I went there is because Dillon was and maybe still is running behind on available stock to ship, Gunbrokers and Ebay had base systems and a inflated price to go with it, yet John had Dillon 550 presses and everything I wanted to go with it in stock. Only real difference in price is that I would be paying was sales tax. I told John what I was looking to get and he started grabbing boxes. I mentioned a digital scale and he stated in a matter of fact tone that I should forget that and that I want and need a beam scale. Somebody else there chimed in and I figured that they knew more than I did and heeded their recommendation. John asked me if I had any Powder, case and bullets, I replied no, to which he brought forth a quantity of each to 'get me going'. Stated he couldn't help me with primers pointing to his sign. I rang up a $1300+ bill, paid and then John told some guy that didn't seem to me to work there to help me carry everything out, to which the guy did!

The entire first time experience and as a noob was very pleasant, I found John very knowledgeable, matter of fact and easy to deal with. While I did pick up a few of the 'starter' books there as he had them in stock and I hadn't read them yet, he took notice of my selection and maybe the difference was that I had done enough online research as to exactly what equipment I needed/wanted for specifically for 9mm and 45. I wasn't vague with my requests or questions, I had a plan and had done my homework for that part of it.

I hope his recovery goes quick and well.

[Angus]

never had an issue with John and I'm not part of any club. There is unlimited information available and there are no shortcuts to trying to make the right ammo for a particular gun. john doesn't sell "magic bullets" and theres no one but you who can put together all the variables for your firearm. if your trying to make your 30-30 a 30-06 or your 06 a 300 win mag your probably at the wrong shop.

[Pat Cannon]

I'm about the cheapest guy in the world, and until fairly recently one of the most ignorant about guns in general and reloading in particular. When I brought back my CCI #500 primers because they said "500" on them and I knew I had paid for 1000, he showed me on the other side of the box where it said "1000" and I think he actually managed to not roll his eyes, at least when I was looking at him. So I don't think he's so bad. Quite the contrary.

It's true that lots of gun store employees are bad at sucking up to customers, and that goes double if they're the owner. But I don't go to any retail establishment to have my personal importance validated. Except maybe a bar.

[EJSG19]

While holding your hand lovingly doesn't happen there I admit...

I have to smile at these comments. So now Larry is great but john is a turd? Not my experience. John greets me every time I walk in... Larry barely makes eye contact. This is all irrelevant however. You go there to get the best reloading advice in the Midwest. You go there for some of the best gun deals in the state. Some of you go there to get your undies in a knot apparently... the atmosphere there has been unchanged for years. What else is new?

[DoxaPar]

This whole 'Yeah, he deals with a lot of noobs so it's okay" attitude is pretty silly. Who do you think John (or anyone else there) is gonna be selling to when all you old timers die off or get too old to reload? Maybe he isn't in it for the long run but any smart businessman knows that if you're not making new customers who are gonna come back to your brick and mortar store to buy your product for a premium price are gonna do it because of the person behind the counter. Unfortunately, Gunstop doesn't have that to offer new potential customers. So in my opinion he's appears to actually be working hard to reduce his customer base.

While I can appreciate a knowledgeable owner or sales person who is willing to share that information with you for the sake of selling you a product or service (and I WILL pay extra for that) I frankly have no interest in shopping there when I can get what I need online without the pissy attitudes that seem to come free with the privileged of handing Gunstop your money in exchange for a product.

So if he wants to scare off all the "n00bs" I say go for it. It will only be himself he hurts, the n00bs will get their stuff elsewhere, for less, and without the bad attitudes and feeling they weren't welcome there in the first place.

Besides, all you guys were n00bs once too. Everyone was.

[gun_fan111]

This whole 'Yeah, he deals with a lot of noobs so it's okay" attitude is pretty silly. Who do you think John (or anyone else there) is gonna be selling to when all you old timers die off or get too old to reload? Maybe he isn't in it for the long run but any smart businessman knows that if you're not making new customers who are gonna come back to your brick and mortar store to buy your product for a premium price are gonna do it because of the person behind the counter. Unfortunately, Gunstop doesn't have that to offer new potential customers. So in my opinion he's appears to actually be working hard to reduce his customer base.

While I can appreciate a knowledgeable owner or sales person who is willing to share that information with you for the sake of selling you a product or service (and I WILL pay extra for that) I frankly have no interest in shopping there when I can get what I need online without the pissy attitudes that seem to come free with the privileged of handing Gunstop your money in exchange for a product.

So if he wants to scare off all the "n00bs" I say go for it. It will only be himself he hurts, the n00bs will get their stuff elsewhere, for less, and without the bad attitudes and feeling they weren't welcome there in the first place.

Besides, all you guys were n00bs once too. Everyone was.

Wow, what did John have to do to piss you off this badly? I'll take a grouchy knowledgeable person at the counter every time over a smiling dumb a**.

[DoxaPar]

This whole 'Yeah, he deals with a lot of noobs so it's okay" attitude is pretty silly. Who do you think John (or anyone else there) is gonna be selling to when all you old timers die off or get too old to reload? Maybe he isn't in it for the long run but any smart businessman knows that if you're not making new customers who are gonna come back to your brick and mortar store to buy your product for a premium price are gonna do it because of the person behind the counter. Unfortunately, Gunstop doesn't have that to offer new potential customers. So in my opinion he's appears to actually be working hard to reduce his customer base.

While I can appreciate a knowledgeable owner or sales person who is willing to share that information with you for the sake of selling you a product or service (and I WILL pay extra for that) I frankly have no interest in shopping there when I can get what I need online without the pissy attitudes that seem to come free with the privileged of handing Gunstop your money in exchange for a product.

So if he wants to scare off all the "n00bs" I say go for it. It will only be himself he hurts, the n00bs will get their stuff elsewhere, for less, and without the bad attitudes and feeling they weren't welcome there in the first place.

Besides, all you guys were n00bs once too. Everyone was.

Wow, what did John have to do to piss you off this badly? I'll take a grouchy knowledgeable person at the counter every time over a smiling dumb a**.

Sure, if the grouchy knowledgeable person is at least willing to actually speak with you.

What small specialty shops like John's so often do wrong is fail to provide good customer service in this changing market. The younger generations (20 and 30 somethings) are very eager to buy online for a cheap price. Small shops like John's survive in our Midway world by providing good customer service to make up for the prices that are necessary in small specialty brick and mortar shops.

While John could be benefiting from the recent boom in gun owners (and potential reloaders who compromise an increase in his potential market) he seems to think it's ok to drive them off with a bad attitude - and there seems to be a lot of defense of that here with all the "n00b" talk. Essentially, he's driving away his future market.

I've got no personal beef with Gunstop other than the fact that I'll never shop there again simply as a result of the absolutely horrible customer service experiences I've had there. I suspect I'm not alone in that. I've been there twice and have only spent about 300 bucks but I'll not be going back again. So as one reloading noob can at least attest, the poor customer service that appears to be justified here isn't doing Gunstop any favors at all.

If others have had a good experience, I'm glad theirs was different and I hope they can continue to have those experiences and bolster up the sales to keep Gunstop open long-term.

[DoxaPar]

Big John and Owner John

Maybe I'm mixing up the "Johns". Well.. that sounds awkward.

I didn't realize there was more than one John there. Maybe the ******* I've dealt with was the "Big John" not "Owner John".

[FJ540]

When you need a new decapping stem at 3pm Friday afternoon so you can load up your match ammo for Saturday morning - let us know how Midway works out for ya.

John makes his living by having it in stock, on the shelf, where you can go home with it right now... Mail order will never beat that. It's precisely why I will spend a few extra bucks to keep the little guy's open. Amazon, Brownell's, and Midway cannot beat "in stock, here, right now" - no matter how hard they try, for anything close to the same price. You want to shop based on price? Then put in your backorder if you can, and wait.

I've walked in there and seen .224 bullets on the shelf when the big two (brownells and midway) have nothing and had no expected in-stock date. So he wants a couple bucks more - a "bird" in the hand... You're paying for availability. He's charging for his overhead and time. He doesn't run the store for benevolence, and no one should expect him to. Some day you might appreciate that he has one to sell you, even if it's not the best price around.

"Value" means different things to different people.

[DoxaPar]

When you need a new decapping stem at 3pm Friday afternoon so you can load up your match ammo for Saturday morning - let us know how Midway works out for ya.

John makes his living by having it in stock, on the shelf, where you can go home with it right now... Mail order will never beat that. It's precisely why I will spend a few extra bucks to keep the little guy's open. Amazon, Brownell's, and Midway cannot beat "in stock, here, right now" - no matter how hard they try, for anything close to the same price. You want to shop based on price? Then put in your backorder if you can, and wait.

I've walked in there and seen .224 bullets on the shelf when the big two (brownells and midway) have nothing and had no expected in-stock date. So he wants a couple bucks more - a "bird" in the hand... You're paying for availability. He's charging for his overhead and time. He doesn't run the store for benevolence, and no one should expect him to. Some day you might appreciate that he has one to sell you, even if it's not the best price around.

I was VERY clear that price wasn't my issue with Gunstop. I even said I was willing to pay a premium for it. So, no offense, but let's drop the straw man accusations.

While I can appreciate a knowledgeable owner or sales person who is willing to share that information with you for the sake of selling you a product or service (and I WILL pay extra for that)...

I agree though with your general argument. Gunstop offers product immediately in instances when someone needs or wants it immediately. That's a good thing and provides justification for charging more that people will understand.

[FJ540]

I frankly have no interest in shopping there when I can get what I need online without the pissy attitudes that seem to come free with the privileged of handing Gunstop your money in exchange for a product.

So if he wants to scare off all the "n00bs" I say go for it. It will only be himself he hurts, the n00bs will get their stuff elsewhere, for less, and without the bad attitudes and feeling they weren't welcome there in the first place.

Besides, all you guys were n00bs once too. Everyone was.

Who said anything about a strawman? You mentioned online being a holy grail for everything they can provide and put them out of business, so I made a valid claim that you can't buy what they often have in stock, online right now. You can't buy it online, which means that's an invalid argument regardless of cost. OOS!

Meanwhile, John has running orders with all of his suppliers, so he's constantly got merchandise coming in. He's also selling online, but to a much smaller audience than the big boys, so when he has it, it lasts a bit longer. You have a higher probability of acquiring what you want when he has it vs holding out for the "in stock" notice from anywhere else and praying you're the fastest to log in and snag it of the 4,000 other people getting that notice too.

The phone is an amazing device some youngsters have ditched for texts. You can call GS and ask if they have something, and they will give you an honest answer. You can even have them set it aside while you drive your butt there. I haven't called asking about primers in months, but they're pretty open to discussing what powders and projectiles they have in stock.

Last point about the personnel at these establishments - how many of you know chatty accountants (Rodentman's the exception)? Reloading is hard science, and it's pretty drab. People who are drawn towards that don't always have the best people skills.

[DoxaPar]

FJ, I understand what you're saying and don't disagree with you. You seem to be arguing with me about something we don't disagree over.

But you've missed my point (or at least haven't replied to it).

My point is just this: Gunstop's customer service is costing them business and excusing their bad customer experience because they have to deal with a new influx of "noobs" is a very bad excuse.

I'm not the first person to say this in this thread and I'm sure as hell not the first person to say it here on mnguntalk.

[Rip Van Winkle]

Add me to the list of those who've never felt mistreated at GS.

If John's customer service is costing him business, you can't prove it by me. The place is hopping every time I've been there.