Need .380 Auto Loading Advice

[Seismic Sam]

maybe CBC stands for "Can't be concentric"???

[MXGreg]

Alright, does Lee make a .380 FCD die?? That might cure a few tenths of a mil of eccentricity, and/or square things up.

These's two on eBay right now, about $23 shipped.

[BigDog58]

Alright, does Lee make a .380 FCD die?? That might cure a few tenths of a mil of eccentricity, and/or square things up.

BTW - You need a effen 10 rod surveyor's tape to measure MY eccentricity!!

I'm not gonna run with any ball micrometer jokes, but it's a little hard to keep a straight face when you use those two words together...

Sam, I am already using the Lee FCD and I do have a Surface plate. I don't have a concentricity gauge but visually they appear to roll without a wobble.

Today, a friend shot 6 rounds through his .380 and had zero load or ejection problems. I'm to the point that according to my measuerments with both a Dial and a Digital Caliper, the rounds fall within tolerances, and they functioned well while being shot, so I'm going to consider them okay. I plan to Call L.E. Wilson (case gauge mfg) and ask them for any ideas or advice.

[BigDog58]

Jim, this may be a long shot, but is this different brass than what you previously loaded and/or does the problem occur with a specific headstamp. I had a similar problem last year reloading 9mm. About 10-20% of my loads would fail the plunk test.

After much research, I found the problem was occurring with 9mm CBC brass. Sorted that brass out, no more problem. I still don't know why the CBC brass fails, have yet to figure it out.

Steve, I do have some of the CBC brass and some fit just fine while others don't. When I try just the resized case without a bullet seated, they fit perfectly. As do all the other cases.

I did discover I was over crimping and after adjusting that (by disassembling and visually checking the bullets for signs) it reduced the problem from a large number not fitting, to a smaller percentage. It doesn't seem to be limited to any particular case brand.

My last thought (guess) is it possible I should Trim all my cases to an exact equal length. I have never had to trim pistol brass, but I wonder if .380's might be critical in that aspect?

Has anyone else loading .380 Auto had to trim their brass?



Thanks to EVERONE for pitching in and trying to help. I loaded several hundred .380's on my Turret press with no reported problems (loaded for wifes cousin) and at the time I didn't have a case gauge (was on order) and only had three different barrels to use to check for fit and clearance. The problem started when I started loading the .380 with my Load Master progressive and using case gauges. I have even loaded them with the older borrowed set of dies ( no previous problems) and the brand new set I just received from Lee. I thought it might be possible I might have a faulty set of dies, but it doesn't appear so. I also don't believe it is the Shell Plate either.

My last testing effort is going to be setting up my Classic Turret pressand see whether I get similar results? If anyone has another idea, I'm more than happy to test your ideas.

As a note: I have loaded numerous 9mm rounds with the Load Master, with no problems, so I don't believe the press is the culprit.

[BigDog58]

Alright, does Lee make a .380 FCD die?? That might cure a few tenths of a mil of eccentricity, and/or square things up.

These's two on eBay right now, about $23 shipped.

I have two of them now. One I just bought and the other, a borrowed set of dies with an FCD?

[MaryB]

I always trim used cases because you never know what you have for sure. Also gives me a starting point to make everything the same.

[aht_six]

...Sierra 90 gr JHP Bullets in Cleaned, Resized, and Hand Primed Range Brass (Mixed head stamps) I have verified the bullets are exactly .355"...After seating the bullet to an OAL of .965" 9 out of 10 will not sit flush in the gauges (I am holding the gauges in my hand, not placed on the bench, so it isn't a length problem....

Are you sure it's not the length? My Sierra manual, edition V, recommends a COL of .930 for their 90 gr JHP bullet in a .380.

[BigDog58]

...Sierra 90 gr JHP Bullets in Cleaned, Resized, and Hand Primed Range Brass (Mixed head stamps) I have verified the bullets are exactly .355"...After seating the bullet to an OAL of .965" 9 out of 10 will not sit flush in the gauges (I am holding the gauges in my hand, not placed on the bench, so it isn't a length problem....

Are you sure it's not the length? My Sierra manual, edition V, recommends a COL of .930 for their 90 gr JHP bullet in a .380.

I'm seating to .965" My manuals show a Minimum COAL of .955" and a Max of .984"

Is your Sierra manual length the Minimum COAL ?

All measurements from the mouth of the case down to the rim, are below the Max my books show. Before inserting and seating the bullet, the cases drop right into the case gauge, flush. I'm only getting the error once the bullet is inserted. The L.E. Wilson gauge also checks for Max Length at the same time, which of course mine are .019" shorter than.

As I said, I'm going to call Wilson Tues and see what they say? I have NEVER had this problem woth any other caliber (I load 16 total calibers) and I have a case gauge for every caliber I load.

My friend test fired 6 rds (he watched me load them) through his .380 (same barrel we double checked rounds fitting into) and they cycled, and fired just fine. No FTF nor FTE.

I'm beginning to believe that the gauges (Lyman and Wilson) are simply too tight.




MaryB, I have checked numerous cases for length, and ALL are under the Max length and shouldn't need trimming. I might be wrong, but I checked three of my manuals to make certain all had the same dimensions and no typo's. Thank you for the suggestion, but so far I have loaded over 10,000 pistol rounds (most on my Classic Turret) and Never ran into this issue before. I believe I'm one of the VERY few to stump OldmanFCSA too....lol

I truly appreciate everyone's help and suggestions. I will post and let you all know what Wilson says, if they answer my questions.

[OldmanFCSA]

When cases are formed, a draw die is used to "pull" the brass forward from base material, When the brass reaches the proper length, the process stops. Sometimes the initial brass slug may be slightly over weight, which will result in extra material in web area of case on the inside. Cases are drawn to meet a spec to be used with a particular bullet upon assembly.

So what am I saying - I believe, without seeing or being able to measure your problem cases, that the internal web forward design is spec'ed for a lighter bullet or a bullet with a less-than-flat base, which will seat to depth without forcing case wall to be distorted. IF you had a ball micrometer, you could measure for this condition. However, with careful technique, you should be able to check for this condition with your calipers. Case wall thickness down to normal seating depth will vary only slightly, however, any attempt to seat deeper will show a thicker wall condition which a flat based bullet distorts the case wall outward as a visual error, or enough distortion to prevent proper seating in your case gage. Pistol chambers are almost always larger than gages.

Let us know what you find, PLEASE.

IF you want some extreme samples of this distortion, I have a bunch of loaded 380 manufactured from military 5.56x45 cases.

[aht_six]

...Is your Sierra manual length the Minimum COAL ?...

Yes. C.O.A.L.

For the .380 acp, Sierra's reloading manual (Edition V) recommends:
90 gr JHP 0.930 C.O.A.L.
95 gr FMJ 0.960 C.O.A.L.
115 gr JHP 0.930 C.O.A.L.
115 gr FMJ 0.984 C.O.A.L.

[BigDog58]

Yes. C.O.A.L.

For the .380 acp, Sierra's reloading manual (Edition V) recommends:
90 gr JHP 0.930 C.O.A.L.
95 gr FMJ 0.960 C.O.A.L.
115 gr JHP 0.930 C.O.A.L.
115 gr FMJ 0.984 C.O.A.L.


[/quote]

Later after getting some sleep, I will try seating the bullet deeper to a COAL of .930 and see if it helps. If not, I will try a linger than .960 but less than .984 and see if it makes a difference as per Oldman's suggestion of wall thickness specific to a bullet.

Thanks everyone, you are the BEST

[BigDog58]

Well, it appears my issue is Brass related.
Today, I spoke to tech reps at Sierra, L.E. Wilson and Lee. The best apparent answer I got was from Sierra. I had noticed a visual bulge in the case at the point where the base of the bullet would rest. The Sierra rep asked me if it only appeared on One Side (yeah I know round cases don't have a "side") and after looking very closely, he was correct. The bullet appears to be seated level and not crooked. But the ones that don't properly fit the case gauges, all appear to have a slight bulged area on one side (area) of the cases. Oddly, it seems to.be most prevelant in Winchester cases. I did find a few Blazer cases (a vast minority of them) and a couple PMC that have the noticeable bulge. All the while, the majority of the other cases (not Winchester) seem to do just fine.

So, for now, I'm going to segregate the Winchesters and keep an eye on the rest.

I did find it odd, that the Sierra guy said I should seat to a COL of .930" , when my manuals (I don't own a Sierra) call for a minimum COL of .955"? I did try seating down to .930" but it made no difference, in regards to fitting the case gauge. So, I'm sticking with my initial COL of .965" as I started with.

L.E. Wilson has asked me to load a few "Dummy" rounds (no powder, no primer) and send them, and my case gauge for them to see if they can determine the problem. I haven't decided whether to do this or not, since the problem seems to be brass manufacturer specific.

Thanks to all of you that have tried to help. Your collective knowledge has helped greatly.