Big trouble with the Precision Delta group buy

[jshuberg]

Does anyone know why the state supposedly came in and seized his monies? That typically doesn't happen to honest people. In fact it usually happens to scumbag criminals who defraud people out of money. Sound familiar?

[MNGunGuy]

Since legal action has been discussed here, I have been instructed to digitally copy ANY and ALL posts in regards to this where my full name has been mentioned. All pages, both posted and PM'd have been digitally copied and all IP information has been garnered from the server files as have some other pertinent PM's as may possibly be needed for sustaining a "slander or destruction of charachter" case my legal councel see's necessary.

Curious how you got IP information. Unless you are a mod, an admin or have access to the server you can't see that information. Are you saying you have access to that our you were supplied with it? As a member here that concerns me... You know, privacy and all.

Slander deals with spoken word and doesn't apply here, just an fyi. Also, if you have enough money to seek legal action for libel why aren't you paying people back instead. Problem solved.

[Hmac]

Since legal action has been discussed here, I have been instructed to digitally copy ANY and ALL posts in regards to this where my full name has been mentioned. All pages, both posted and PM'd have been digitally copied and all IP information has been garnered from the server files as have some other pertinent PM's as may possibly be needed for sustaining a "slander or destruction of charachter" case my legal councel see's necessary.

Slander deals with spoken word and doesn't apply here, just an fyi. Also, if you have enough money to seek legal action for libel why aren't you paying people back instead. Problem solved.

Empty threat. He'd either have to prove malice, or justify actual damages


I'm struck by the aggressive tone Big Dog has decided to take. Interesting approach. Seems like hat-in-hand mea culpa would be more appropriate than threats and name-calling.

This is an interesting thread. Good illustration of one reason why most internet hobby forums like this one prohibit group buying schemes.

[CarRacer]

Here's a fun wrinkle. OldmanFSCA sent me a PM earlier today saying he would "expose me" for trying to double dip on this group buy as he is in possession of my GB order. Full disclosure: I made a listing for my GB bullets and had a PM conversation discussing price ( http://www.mnguntalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=47233 ) but don't remember selling them. However, I do remember selling him these bullets ( http://www.mnguntalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=47444 ). I would note that I marked the second ad as sold, while the GB bullet ad remains active.

At this point, I'm going to remove myself from this whole nightmare and wash my hands of it. I don't want any money from anyone and I don't want any bullets. Whatever happened happened.

I do wonder why barely anyone is saying they received bullets yet the one person who is defending Jim received an order. I'll leave you all with that to ponder.

[cobb]

If members of this forum are being harassed or threatened by anyone on this forum, please report it to the mods immediately.

[OldmanFCSA]

?

[LePetomane]

Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!

[yuppiejr]

I wish most of you well. I highly suggest you desist personal attacks except as is in regards to funds owed you. Please don't take this lightly, both you, and this forum may be held accountable and liable. All traffic related to this issue is on a continuous dump, that cannot and will not be stopped until this issue is settled to it's fullest.

[Evad]

I have met a few here...I'd venture a guess that most don't know me well enough to trust me...but here is my update:

I just got part of my order, 60% of what I paid for to be specific. I made a post earlier that it was not all PD, but for sure the bulk was. I take this as a good sign personally. I also saw printouts from the first (4/2013) and second (5/2013) group buys. Jim offered to let me post pictures of the orders, but I decided to limit my involvement to just this. I am not looking to get deeper in to what the thread is turning into. The first was substantially larger than the second. Between seeing the orders, and now having bullets from one, I have to believe PD isn't the best at record keeping. Can I prove the PD bullets I got were shipped to him from the first order, no...and it's not my job to. I'm just reporting what I saw with my own eyes.

On the subject of Jim asking for people to contact him, and others saying they shouldn't need to. I see both sides. Since I had a lot of cash out there...I sent an email. It wasn't hard and I was able to give all of my records so he knew what I expected and deserved. Those couple minutes have paid off so far for me.

[Seismic Sam]

Evad: It's weird that Jim would give you copies of the invoices and tell you that you could publish them, and if he wants them out there why can't he post them himself? That smells VERY fishy, like you're being set up as the fall guy to publish data that may have legal implications so Jim doesn't get stuck with the responsibility. Think about it. I just got done wading through a tiff between Car Racer and Oldman to establish that another 2k bullets were actually delivered, and would welcome any hard info that this situation is isn't as bad as it seems. But noooo.....

And as long as I am here, I need to get something off my chest that has been really bugging me. Jim dropped the statement that he had a "relative" that would give him the money to join OGC this year, and he hadn't made up his mind about it yet. Let's assume for a second that it is a fact that this relative actually exists and has the money. I have been mulling this over, and the fundamental concept is really messing up my mind. Cash money is inanimate paper, and here we are being presented an argument by Jim that $190 as a gift from a relative is morally and ethically different from the same bills that came out of his own accounts. Seriously!! The reason I bring this up is that it's an indication of the lengths that Jim is will to go to to justify his continued spending on himself rather than paying his debts back, and I think you all need to take a hard look at this and realize who you are dealing with. So consider why one $190 bucks is bad for Jim to spend in this situation, and why the other is OK. As far as I'm concerned, this is borderline delusional, and I've only seen this once before in my lifetime. The tally we be out shortly, and then I'm pretty much done with what I set out to do.

[Evad]

Evad: It's weird that Jim would give you copies of the invoices and tell you that you could publish them, and if he wants them out there why can't he post them himself? That smells VERY fishy, like you're being set up as the fall guy to publish data that may have legal implications so Jim doesn't get stuck with the responsibility. Think about it.

I don't get it. There is no way I could suddenly become responsible. I decided not to actually take pictures, but had I done so, it was Jim's name...not mine. Nothing that could hurt me by posting it, but it wouldn't help me either.

[Seismic Sam]

PM sent to Evad.

[splithand]

Reminds of an old joke:
A guy with a gambling problem asks his father in law to loan him $1,000 for a medical procedure for his wife. His father in law replies "Sorry I can't do that. I'm afraid you will just gamble the money away. " The guy replies " I promise you I wil not use this money for gambling, I already have that coverd."

[yuppiejr]

Since legal action has been discussed here, I have been instructed to digitally copy ANY and ALL posts in regards to this where my full name has been mentioned. All pages, both posted and PM'd have been digitally copied and all IP information has been garnered from the server files as have some other pertinent PM's as may possibly be needed for sustaining a "slander or destruction of charachter" case my legal councel see's necessary.

Curious how you got IP information. Unless you are a mod, an admin or have access to the server you can't see that information. Are you saying you have access to that our you were supplied with it? As a member here that concerns me... You know, privacy and all.

Slander deals with spoken word and doesn't apply here, just an fyi. Also, if you have enough money to seek legal action for libel why aren't you paying people back instead. Problem solved.

Without a subpoena to the forum owner requiring access to the data as part of a legal discovery or access to a moderator account he doesn't have IP information... unless he's got an in with the NSA. Certainly anyone can copy-paste items posted or PMed though. There are a few terms being thrown around and it would probably be wise for everyone (the "legal council" in question included) to educate themselves on the definitions of slander, libel and fraud (including precedent in prior judgments/cases) if they are concerned about posting on this topic.

If he DOES have admin access to the forum hosting provider it would be great if he could go ahead and run the various vBulletin, PHP and Taptalk patches that the forum is behind on though!

[LePetomane]