Reloading 10mm... what's yuour fancy?

[deebar]

Siesmic Sam . You mentioned Wolff but when I called them I was told that they did "not" make this spring . Midway has them back ordered for me and they do advertise them in 22lb . I figured I'd go direct to Wolff to get them sooner and that is when the guy I talked with said they didn't make them . This was just a week ago .
I can feel the slide hit with authority with the 3 standard springs received with the Witness Hunter. I'm using the marked "75AA KG 6 ,46" which I'm thinking is around 16 lbs. and the heaviest the pistol came with .
As I mentioned I'm using the 20lb. Wolff spring in my Witness 4 1/2" and I'm pretty sure it's to light . I ordered another 20lb. for the Witness Hunter 6" barrel not wanting to wait any longer for the 22lb. but still on back order .
Growing up in a sporting goods shop with a renowned gunsmith I've shot just about everything with a trigger attached . Started shooting competition at age 11 and shot professionally for Federal for several years and the "International Trap and Skeet Team" for the Army befor volunteering for Nam but all scatter guns . Pistols , while we sold them I never shot them . Reloaded for practice only as reloads were disallowed for competition and again scatter loads only . Over this period I've seen many mishaps with barrels exploding and even actions on some of the finest shotguns ever made even sending a few to the hospital .
I don't want to go half ass'ed into anything I do so must rely on others for their expertise .
I'm aware of lockup (my term) and do not have a chrono which I think is very much needed I'm sure to prove this out . Thanks

[Seismic Sam]

deebar: Dunno what to say - used to order 22 lb springs from Wolff by the 5 pack. You still have to check out the Sprinco recoil reducer for an EAA in 10mm.

As far as all the gun experience you have, in this case that's a hindrance rather than a help. You have managed to spook Oldman, who is the reloading Saint on his board, and I can see why. Seen it all, done it all, yadda yadda, EXCEPT you don't know one thing more about metallic cartridge reloading than a complete rookie who has to be shown where the safety is on the gun. Loose the attitude pronto. You don't know dick about what serious s**t you are getting into, and hot 10mm loads are one of the top 10 danger projects.

I, BTW, am Oldman's evil alter ego, Seismic Sam the 800 pound reloading troll. Oldman gives out knowledge and kindness to boot. I'm mostly about humiliation and emotional pain.

Is that 6" hunter one of the realtree camo ones that EAA cobbled together??

[Seismic Sam]

One other thing - you have 10mm myopia because that's the guns you own, and you have adopted the mindset that any bad guy or animal can be overcome if you just load a 10mm hot enough. That's really bad prioritization.

Ever hear of 45 Super?? Looks like a 45 ACP case, bu the walls are WAAAY thicker. Confuse the two cases, and the first 45 Super load you screw up and put in a 45 ACP will get your head blown off. Apart from that, a good solid 1911 with the right springs can shoot these, and the unofficial factory spec is a 230 grain bullet @ 1200 FPS!!! The other cool thing is that a Smith 625 Revolver will shoot these straight up, so it can be a good riding and trail gun. Leaves the 10mm in the dust.

And if you REALLY want to go the extra mile, there's this: http://www.guncrafterindustries.com It has a good trail record of killing black bear and wild hogs all kinda sudden like. Don't let the ft-lbs deceive you. It has a TKO of 17.4, which is fully equivalent of a Remington 240 grain 44 mag hunting load. It's isn't cheap, but it's been my carry gun for 7 years. Firs gun was an EAA 10mm, BTW.

[deebar]

Seismic Sam , What you say is true and I don't mind in the least you speaking your mind . And if you read my last sentence then perhaps you wouldn't have said what you did . I've shot more than just about anyone I know but that doesn't mean a crap when it comes to pistols or reloading brass . What it does however is give me experience that few have with scatter guns or rifles . Our gunsmith was old and couldn't take the recoil so I was the one that proofed his work and that was where I started , at our own range .
I know technique as well as anyone including pistols but with any shooting it requires practice and more practice , that is what I'm about .
I don't mind tooting my own horn and that includes shooting rifles as base champion with the 16 and 14 before Nam but that's not what it's about . I also have my own thousand yd. range and a member of our thousand yd. club and shoot 2-3 times a week as I have for many years .
I'm asking for help with " pistols " and my experience is just to let you know I'm not a "rookie" as maybe you are suggesting . Rookie in pistols ? Yes ! and reloading , absolutely . If you feel like running me down rather than helping then it's off to someone that will help me to attain my goal(s) . Thanks for your help . db

[deebar]

Seismic Sam , What you say is true and I don't mind in the least you speaking your mind . And if you read my last sentence then perhaps you wouldn't have said what you did . I've shot more than just about anyone I know but that doesn't mean a crap when it comes to pistols or reloading brass . What it does however is give me experience that few have with scatter guns or rifles . Our gunsmith was old and couldn't take the recoil so I was the one that proofed his work and that was where I started , at our own range .
I know technique as well as anyone including pistols but with any shooting it requires practice and more practice , that is what I'm about .
I don't mind tooting my own horn and that includes shooting rifles as base champion with the 16 and 14 before Nam but that's not what it's about . I also have my own thousand yd. range and a member of our thousand yd. club and shoot 2-3 times a week as I have for many years .
I'm asking for help with " pistols " and my experience is just to let you know I'm not a "rookie" as maybe you are suggesting . Rookie in pistols ? Yes ! and reloading , absolutely . If you feel like running me down rather than helping then it's off to someone that will help me to attain my goal(s) . Thanks for your help . db

[deebar]

Seismic Sam , What you say is true and I don't mind in the least you speaking your mind . And if you read my last sentence then perhaps you wouldn't have said what you did . I've shot more than just about anyone I know but that doesn't mean a crap when it comes to pistols or reloading brass . What it does however is give me experience that few have with scatter guns or rifles . Our gunsmith was old and couldn't take the recoil so I was the one that proofed his work and that was where I started , at our own range .
I know technique as well as anyone including pistols but with any shooting it requires practice and more practice , that is what I'm about .
I don't mind tooting my own horn and that includes shooting rifles as base champion with the 16 and 14 before Nam but that's not what it's about . I also have my own thousand yd. range and a member of our thousand yd. club and shoot 2-3 times a week as I have for many years .
I'm asking for help with " pistols " and my experience is just to let you know I'm not a "rookie" as maybe you are suggesting . Rookie in pistols ? Yes ! and reloading , absolutely . If you feel like running me down rather than helping then it's off to someone that will help me to attain my goal(s) . Thanks for your help . db

[crbutler]

I am not sure who you talked with at Wolff.

If you look for them on the web, they have (at their site gunsprings .com) EAA full size 22# recoil springs listed @ around $9

As to loading 10mm hot, you would be better off getting a heavier bullet (like a 220 grain hard cast one) at a bit more moderate velocity. Frankly, with a bear, nothing works as well as a full on magnum rifle if you don't hit CNS, and if its in a charge situation, a CNS hit is all that will stop it before you are hit badly even with the big rifles.

Before I worried about an extra 100 FPS of muzzle velocity, I would get a good shot placement guide and lean the anatomy to put the bullet where you want. How fast they move (and I have been there done that) a 5 shot revolver will have all the ammo that you can use in that time frame. I know a few dedicated handgun hunters. None of them use a 10mm as the go to gun on dangerous soft skinned animals. (actually none use auto pistols at all for that) While I realize that you are not talking hunting, trying to buff up a 10 mm to give the edge on a bear is not the answer- use the right cartridge, which in my opinion starts at .44 mag for bear defense.

[deebar]

crbutler , Thanks , and yeah I've been there but never had to shoot . One of my business's for almost 30 years was as a commercial fisherman in Alaska and my work week was usually 2 days and if I didn't tear up my nets I'd go hunting or fishing the many rivers . It was nothing to see 20 to 50 bear (blacks) on one of any of the streams . Never had any trouble with em' but the Grizzly's were always a threat each and every time I was around them and some did charge but never closer than 20 to 25 yds . Deer hunting was always a challenge to get to your kill before the Brownies did which happened a few times on the ABC Islands near Sitka . No one I know ever used less than a .338 just because of the bears . Limit was 5 deer and many times we'd have 30 or more deer hanging on the aft. stay and forestays using a sqeeker out of a mama doll . Volunteering to count fish for the F&G was the most dangerous because you couldn't see em' .
When on the trail my concern is and always will be getting on target . Using a .44 or larger is difficult if not impossible to handle one handed which would be most of the time because of angle and that's why a 10 makes more sense to me . If you know grizzly's you know that one of their favorite tactics is to lay in wait along trails and that's always or most always a broadside hit . Thanks ,db

[deebar]

crbutler , Thanks , and yeah I've been there but never had to shoot . One of my business's for almost 30 years was as a commercial fisherman in Alaska and my work week was usually 2 days and if I didn't tear up my nets I'd go hunting or fishing the many rivers . It was nothing to see 20 to 50 bear (blacks) on one of any of the streams . Never had any trouble with em' but the Grizzly's were always a threat each and every time I was around them and some did charge but never closer than 20 to 25 yds . Deer hunting was always a challenge to get to your kill before the Brownies did which happened a few times on the ABC Islands near Sitka . No one I know ever used less than a .338 just because of the bears . Limit was 5 deer and many times we'd have 30 or more deer hanging on the aft. stay and forestays using a sqeeker out of a mama doll . Volunteering to count fish for the F&G was the most dangerous because you couldn't see em' .
When on the trail my concern is and always will be getting on target . Using a .44 or larger is difficult if not impossible to handle one handed which would be most of the time because of angle and that's why a 10 makes more sense to me . If you know grizzly's you know that one of their favorite tactics is to lay in wait along trails and that's always or most always a broadside hit . Thanks ,db

[deebar]

crbutler , Thanks , and yeah I've been there but never had to shoot . One of my business's for almost 30 years was as a commercial fisherman in Alaska and my work week was usually 2 days and if I didn't tear up my nets I'd go hunting or fishing the many rivers . It was nothing to see 20 to 50 bear (blacks) on one of any of the streams . Never had any trouble with em' but the Grizzly's were always a threat each and every time I was around them and some did charge but never closer than 20 to 25 yds . Deer hunting was always a challenge to get to your kill before the Brownies did which happened a few times on the ABC Islands near Sitka . No one I know ever used less than a .338 just because of the bears . Limit was 5 deer and many times we'd have 30 or more deer hanging on the aft. stay and forestays using a sqeeker out of a mama doll . Volunteering to count fish for the F&G was the most dangerous because you couldn't see em' .
When on the trail my concern is and always will be getting on target . Using a .44 or larger is difficult if not impossible to handle one handed which would be most of the time because of angle and that's why a 10 makes more sense to me . If you know grizzly's you know that one of their favorite tactics is to lay in wait along trails and that's always or most always a broadside hit . Thanks ,db

[deebar]

crbutler , Thanks , and yeah I've been there but never had to shoot . One of my business's for almost 30 years was as a commercial fisherman in Alaska and my work week was usually 2 days and if I didn't tear up my nets I'd go hunting or fishing the many rivers . It was nothing to see 20 to 50 bear (blacks) on one of any of the streams . Never had any trouble with em' but the Grizzly's were always a threat each and every time I was around them and some did charge but never closer than 20 to 25 yds . Deer hunting was always a challenge to get to your kill before the Brownies did which happened a few times on the ABC Islands near Sitka . No one I know ever used less than a .338 just because of the bears . Limit was 5 deer and many times we'd have 30 or more deer hanging on the aft. stay and forestays using a sqeeker out of a mama doll . Volunteering to count fish for the F&G was the most dangerous because you couldn't see em' .
When on the trail my concern is and always will be getting on target . Using a .44 or larger is difficult if not impossible to handle one handed which would be most of the time because of angle and that's why a 10 makes more sense to me . If you know grizzly's you know that one of their favorite tactics is to lay in wait along trails and that's always or most always a broadside hit . Thanks ,db

[deebar]

crbutler , Thanks , and yeah I've been there but never had to shoot . One of my business's for almost 30 years was as a commercial fisherman in Alaska and my work week was usually 2 days and if I didn't tear up my nets I'd go hunting or fishing the many rivers . It was nothing to see 20 to 50 bear (blacks) on one of any of the streams . Never had any trouble with em' but the Grizzly's were always a threat each and every time I was around them and some did charge but never closer than 20 to 25 yds . Deer hunting was always a challenge to get to your kill before the Brownies did which happened a few times on the ABC Islands near Sitka . No one I know ever used less than a .338 just because of the bears . Limit was 5 deer and many times we'd have 30 or more deer hanging on the aft. stay and forestays using a sqeeker out of a mama doll . Volunteering to count fish for the F&G was the most dangerous because you couldn't see em' .
When on the trail my concern is and always will be getting on target . Using a .44 or larger is difficult if not impossible to handle one handed which would be most of the time because of angle and that's why a 10 makes more sense to me . If you know grizzly's you know that one of their favorite tactics is to lay in wait along trails and that's always or most always a broadside hit . Thanks ,db

[steve4102]

Deebar, why do you post the same info two three and even four times in a row?

[deebar]

So I just read my posts and yeah, you're right . Must have hit the post a couple of times , not intentional . This is a new compuker with a different system and I hate it . Was a Vista and now Windows 8.1 and why I need help with my pistols so I can shoot this s.o.b. !

[OldmanFCSA]

I ocassionally duplicate a posting, but if you go proof reading and see one, hit the red x and delete the duplicate.
Your long multiple rants are not beneficial to the readers of the Forum.
And I still feel your fixation on the 10mm is wrong, but that is your choice. I will not teach reloading it for two reasons, 1 don't have reloading dies, brass, or experience in that cartridge, and 2, I believe you would not listen to safe reloading practices and just want to go to max loadings or above. Your rants about using heavier springs in your guns so you can go to even heavier loadings, prove my point, and your inexperience and disregard for safety for yourself, others, and your equipment. I don't give a hoot about your past experience, it doesn't apply when learning to reload safely.