Warning about Ammoload AND IMT brass!!!

[Seismic Sam]

6/3/14 UPDATE: Just scrounged a bunch more brass over at OGC, and found EVEN MORE Ammoload and IMT brass than before!! That means that it is likely that a lot of you will be getting stuck with this stuff like the #$$%^&^^%$$#%^&^%$^!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! small primer 45ACP cases, except that stuff is an annoyance rather than a possible cause of a Kaboom if you load it with a near max load. Sort 9mm carefully from now on, people, because it's your continued good health that will be on the line.....

Just ran across about 10 more of these little pressure cookers at OGC, so I thought I shorten up and repeat my warning from last year.

UPDATE!! Just found a 2nd headstamp with the same reduced internal space: IMT

Was sorting my 9mm range brass I had scrounged, and came across some very weird stuff:







There are also 45ACP Ammoload cases, and it has the same weird ledge inside the case in the lower half of it. As with 9mm, if you do reload this stuff, you're going to have to develop a whole new recipe for this reduced powder volume case. If you don't find 200 0r 300 all lying there in a pile, then you better make sure this doesn't get in with your other brass!!

These cases have a ledge and thus a substantially thicker base to them, which will make them VERY different from any other 9mm brass, and if you mix this stuff in with your other 9mm, you are asking for trouble. I went to the trouble of weighing the cases, and on average, they are 8.8% heavier than the average of 6 other popular brands, which is what you would expect with that extra brass in there. I then did a volume determination with water, and found out these cases had 4.4% LESS volume that standard 9mm cases. That's misleading, however, as the front half of the case is taken up by the bullet, so as far as the space for the powder is concerned, Ammoload cases have about 9% LESS internal volume than other cases. That's significant, and if you're loading full power loads with a quick burning powder like 231, something could go KABOOM on you. As such, if you run into this stuff, segregate it and make sure it isn't loaded with anything ELSE!!

[Synergy]

I find those all the time and throw em into the scrap bucket.

[goatroper]

Any reason why the ledge is put in? Only thing I can come up with is to prevent bullet set back.

[Rodentman]

I smell a rat.

[Seismic Sam]

I smell a rat.

[jonahk]

Just ran across about 10 more of these little pressure cookers at OGC, so I thought I shorten up and repeat my warning from last year.

FWIW the batch of Freedom Munitions I ordered in 9mm (new) last month was all loaded into Ammoload brass. This month's order now uses IMT brass (which the intertubes claim as the same Turkish supplier as Ammoload).

I'll try and remember to pick up some of my brass on Thursday at the USPSA match and check to see if the ridge is in there.

In the mean time, don't pick up my brass

[Rodentman]

Sorry about my unconstructive remark.

[Seismic Sam]

You must be having an off night. If you were in your usual form, you would have said it was an unconstrictive remark, and gone into a story about the Colt Python...

[hard h2o]

In googling around on the ammoload brass it seems that some that has been reloaded have suffered case separations. They are clean cuts and look like an intentional cutting of the case.

If I see any of this it will go in the recycling bin.

[SIGP240]

I wonder if the thicker dimension at the base precludes bulging in full auto unsupported chambers found on the Glock Machine Pistol? I know the MP40 and MAC-10 feed best when the loading is a little more hot than conventional 9mm. Base swelling could be an issue then. I kinda like the concept of a thicker base! My first batch of 38 Special I ever loaded for the M52 was thick walled military brass, and I had great results and case life.

[andrewP]

Just ran across about 10 more of these little pressure cookers at OGC, so I thought I shorten up and repeat my warning from last year.

FWIW the batch of Freedom Munitions I ordered in 9mm (new) last month was all loaded into Ammoload brass. This month's order now uses IMT brass (which the intertubes claim as the same Turkish supplier as Ammoload).

I'll try and remember to pick up some of my brass on Thursday at the USPSA match and check to see if the ridge is in there.

In the mean time, don't pick up my brass

I must have gotten some of yours after tearing down the comp range stage 2 weeks ago - I found 2 IMTs and an Ammoload while loading a batch that had some brass from there. All 3 had the ledge, and were set aside. They're sitting on the corner of my bench at the moment. I suppose I probably should get rid of them just to be sure I don't accidentally mix them back in. I think I'll wait until I exhaust that container of brass, though, just to see how many I find.

[Seismic Sam]

I wonder if the thicker dimension at the base precludes bulging in full auto unsupported chambers found on the Glock Machine Pistol? I know the MP40 and MAC-10 feed best when the loading is a little more hot than conventional 9mm. Base swelling could be an issue then. I kinda like the concept of a thicker base! My first batch of 38 Special I ever loaded for the M52 was thick walled military brass, and I had great results and case life.

While thicker based brass can be used to run at higher pressures, it is NOT done with a ledge like that!! The 9x23 Winchester round is actually a cut down 223 case with thinner walls up near the case mouth for shooting in 38 Supers, and merrily runs along at about 52,000 PSI with no problems. The point is that the brass is full rifle thickness at the base, and gradually tapers down so that the case mouth walls will be thin enough to accept .355-.356 bullets and still chamber. As noted in one of the posts in this thread, attempts to reload this junk have resulted in case seperations right where the ridge is, and I'm sure that the sudden transition from thick to thin localizes all the stress right at the ledge point, producing a pretty clean cut. As such, I think it's extremely unlikely that this design was meant for high pressure subgun rounds.

Other people have suggested that the ledge might be used to prevent bullet setback, and in a 3rd world country where QC means just smell it and sell it, this might be a way around having to have consistent neck tension and tighter standards to prevent setback and a kaboom. For somebody who still has a loaded round, measure the OAL of the round, then pull the bullet, measure the OAL of the bullet, subtract that from the cartridge OAL, and see if that number is the distance from the rim of the case to the ledge.

[20mm]

I wouldn't worry about this brass. Watch out for all the brass some jerk is dropping with laser cut cracks on the inner wall of the case head.

[Ironbear]

I wouldn't worry about this brass. Watch out for all the brass some jerk is dropping with laser cut cracks on the inner wall of the case head.

Perhaps you could elaborate?

[Seismic Sam]

I wouldn't worry about this brass. Watch out for all the brass some jerk is dropping with laser cut cracks on the inner wall of the case head.

Perhaps you could elaborate?

Yeah!! Where is this brass turning up, what's the headstamp(s), and do you have a picture?? That would be a deliberate attempt to get somebody seriously hurt. At OGC we have upgraded our video coverage on all the ranges, so we might be able to catch somebody just tossing empty cases on the floor,