Lead Free

[homestead]

I suppose now that this is out there I'm no longer welcome on the forum

[photogpat]

You're familiar with the saying: "The poison is in the dose" ?

You realistically can't get enough of a dose from the amount of outdoor shooting you'll be doing to cause any problems. Science and research has shown that the only ones suffering from lead exposure are subsistence game hunters, indoor shooters and reloaders.

I can appreciate wanting to preserve the environment - I compost, recycle everything, grow my own organic herbs and veggies, and contribute to non-game wildlife and conservation every year.

Like you, I'm a pragmatist and a voracious reader - don't automatically buy into the Humane Society's BS about lead...be selective in your reading.

[photogpat]

I suppose now that this is out there I'm no longer welcome on the forum

Nonsense - I feel you're still welcome. It's just a sore spot with the Humane Society pushing the lead ban (obliquely through the DNR) this year in MN...

[homestead]

Right. I was going off of other shooters' YouTube videos and articles, not any organization. Massad Ayoob's comments on indoor ranges, for example. Thanks again for your thoughts. The over-arching idea, whether for myself or anyone, is to be thoughtful, open minded, and willing to learn. When we decide we're done learning, no matter our views and no matter our age, we've all got a big problem.

[igofast]

Since you're being a pragmatist, please be sure to educate yourself on shortcomings of lead free primers. I'll get you started:

https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1410/1410.6390.pdf

Cliffs Notes: issues in hot/humid environments as well as delay.

There's another report out there that shows a significantly reduced shelf life - which of course I can't find now.

[homestead]

good to know @igofast, thanks. Some enterprising inventor will maybe solve those problems one day.

[sprigfan]

Wear respirators when you shoot. When you are done, immediately take off and wash your clothes and take a shower. That's the best alternative I can think of.

If you are using lead free bullets, I think the environmental impact is very close to nonexistant.

[crbutler]

The environmental impact shooting lead is next to nonexistent.

If you want to use lead free primers, that is your choice, but really, with the doses involved it is a nonfactor. Simple hygiene rules make lead in priming a nonfactor even in an enclosed environment. Lead is present at relatively modest levels in nature regardless of what you do, and the amounts already in the environment from leaded gasoline use dwarf any priming compound use.

Lead projectiles are also not a documented source of environmental lead exposure. I can't begin to count the number of folks I have seen a .22 projectile in the body with undetectable lead levels, and the DNR's own research states that there is no effect from lead projectiles that has been seen.

The all copper projectiles for hunting do have a specific purpose, and are effective. I have used them on several hunts...but they also are much more expensive than standard cup and core bullets and an order of magnitude more expensive than cast lead bullets.

The reason to go to lead free alternatives is if you are a believer in a "no minimum exposure" theory.

As a physician, there are so many items that have a higher risk than lead, I essentially discount it as a problem unless you meet certain criteria. I have seen some lead poisoning, but when you get into the cases, it becomes obvious that there is a significant point source. The current lead phobia is not really medically/scientifically supported. Take some basic precautions like washing your hands and face and not eating or putting stuf in your mouth while shooting, and you will be fine.

[silvor]

Why not just shoot into a bullet trap?

Get a metal one to recycle the lead or a sand pile as a backstop.

[homestead]

thanks again to all for continuing to offer valuable info including a physician's perspective. I guess the over-arching theme is we're moving our family to the deep forest for the clean air, clean water, and simple living, so I want to make sure I'm thoughtfully working toward that in every aspect of what we do. That doesn't mean we don't have useful things like chainsaws, plow truck, etc., of course we do.

Bullet trap - yes, I haven't figured that out yet. Recycling the projectile metals would be great. I will have to study up.

[Seismic Sam]

I suppose now that this is out there I'm no longer welcome on the forum

You're fine. You didn't make any ignorant or dangerous assumptions about reloading, so I think your questions are welcome here.

The 800 lb. Reloading Troll....

[Ghost]

thanks again to all for continuing to offer valuable info including a physician's perspective. I guess the over-arching theme is we're moving our family to the deep forest for the clean air, clean water, and simple living, so I want to make sure I'm thoughtfully working toward that in every aspect of what we do. That doesn't mean we don't have useful things like chainsaws, plow truck, etc., of course we do.

Bullet trap - yes, I haven't figured that out yet. Recycling the projectile metals would be great. I will have to study up.

I don't have any issues with what you are trying to accomplish. More power to you. If you can do it and you're happy with the results great.

Now, if/when you start making everybody else do the same that's where I would draw the line. Good luck on your endeavor.

[Seismic Sam]

As far as working with lead bullets, there are several things you can do to minimize your exposure if you are recycling fired lead bullets and casting new ones.

1. Wear gloves whenever handling lead bullets!! Just plain plastic or non-latex surgical gloves are fine, but if you are picking fired bullets out of a trap and then casting them, you need to make sure you are not exposing yourself to lead poisioning through skin absorbption. I learned this from one of the local bullet casting companies, and it's an absolute rule to follow.

2. If you do any bullet casting, do it outside or in a garage with the door open! At normal lead casting temperatures the positive vapor pressure of lead is not all that high, but if you overheat it then it can way worse. No lead fumes in the house, especially with children around.

[OldmanFCSA]

I do my initial lead meltdown outside over a hot wood fire with a large cast iron kettle buried in hot embers with additional wood burning around outside. A slight breeze keeps smoke and lead vapors downwind as I dip and pour into ingot molds for melting pot in my reloading area. The electric pot I use in my reloading garage has an old oven hood over it with walled sides so that entry and draft comes from front past the user thru the casting area and out the exhaust fan which is directed out a port in side of garage away from any entry door.

In the past as a newbee I did not follow good rules and got sick from the vapors - not a good thing to do. I also worked as a production welder welding galvanized pipe into farm cattle gates. The pressurized hoods and jackets we wore worked ok, but source of air was still inside shop air - so how good was it. The vacuum hose on our welding guns were not very effective as it pulled the protective gas away from point of weld. We had a high turn-over of welding personnel. Drank lots of whole milk as it was supposed to help with lead exposure.

If you are going to cast, I would highly recommend an oven hood with walled sides to create a draft in a controlled direction to protect yourself.

[andrewP]

you'd still have lead-based primer in the TMJ rounds I've seen).

I used to worry about this stuff a lot, too, just from the perspective of my own personal health. As others have said, it's REALLY difficult to avoid lead-based primers. Until the industry finds something non-toxic that works as consistently as lead styphnate, and is on par for price, we're probably stuck with it.

Really the people who wind up with significantly elevated blood lead levels are either those who shoot on poorly ventilated indoor ranges or those who reload without taking some precautions to limit their exposure, especially in regard to handling of dry tumbling media, as dry tumbling tends to result in the creation of lead-rich dust. If you shoot mostly outdoors and aren't a reloader, you probably don't have too much to worry about.

That said, there's an easy way to minimize exposure to vaporized lead compounds from primers; when you get done shooting, put your clothing directly into the washer and put yourself directly into the shower. This both limits the time of your exposure and prevents you from spreading lead residue around your house. Also don't eat/drink while shooting if you can avoid it (obviously if it's super hot out, this may be unavoidable), and at minimum, wash your hands and face before eating afterward, and you should be fine.