Where's the Ammo Hiding?

[Veldy]

I figure it has to let up at some point. Even rimfire is getting tougher to find. I think no one wants to ramp up any production as they know the demand can't be sustained.

It is clear it can be sustained. During the worst months of the current recession, demand has been at the greatest in many many years; perhaps EVER.

[Holland&Holland]

I figure it has to let up at some point. Even rimfire is getting tougher to find. I think no one wants to ramp up any production as they know the demand can't be sustained.

It is clear it can be sustained. During the worst months of the current recession, demand has been at the greatest in many many years; perhaps EVER.

It may be but those who manufacture ammo do not think so otherwise someone would have been hiring extra help and looking at opening up additional facilities.

[Veldy]

I figure it has to let up at some point. Even rimfire is getting tougher to find. I think no one wants to ramp up any production as they know the demand can't be sustained.

It is clear it can be sustained. During the worst months of the current recession, demand has been at the greatest in many many years; perhaps EVER.

It may be but those who manufacture ammo do not think so otherwise someone would have been hiring extra help and looking at opening up additional facilities.

You may be falsely inferring on this point; unless you are somehow in the position to know?

I can only go by the case of Federal where I know they laid off a lot of workers that would happily be making Federal American Eagle for the retail market and making Federal a handsome profit [at today's prices]; they could always lay them off later. For this reason, I believe the cause and effect are a little more complicated than your generalized inference. Your suggestion only indicates why they may not maintain a significant inventory. The pipeline however has high demand, commodity prices have dropped [relevant to ammunition anyway], so there is no reason to avoid meeting the demands of the pipeline [i.e. retail ... it is my understanding they have fulfilled the military obligations]; yet, they are doing just that. Winchester seems to be pushing maximum output [and I can see why they may not want to hire new people until the recession shows signs of coming to a close] and they can't supply the market themselves. Federal laid people off, so, if for no other reason than increased demand and saving the hit on their unemployment insurance, it makes sense to recall those that would return to help meet the retail demand and to actually make a profit [or reduce losses].

[Holland&Holland]

You may be falsely inferring on this point; unless you are somehow in the position to know?

I can only go by the case of Federal where I know they laid off a lot of workers that would happily be making Federal American Eagle for the retail market and making Federal a handsome profit [at today's prices]; they could always lay them off later. For this reason, I believe the cause and effect are a little more complicated than your generalized inference. Your suggestion only indicates why they may not maintain a significant inventory. The pipeline however has high demand, commodity prices have dropped [relevant to ammunition anyway], so there is no reason to avoid meeting the demands of the pipeline [i.e. retail ... it is my understanding they have fulfilled the military obligations]; yet, they are doing just that. Winchester seems to be pushing maximum output [and I can see why they may not want to hire new people until the recession shows signs of coming to a close] and they can't supply the market themselves. Federal laid people off, so, if for no other reason than increased demand and saving the hit on their unemployment insurance, it makes sense to recall those that would return to help meet the retail demand and to actually make a profit [or reduce losses].

I agree, i just do not understand why they would not recall the workers they have laid off. The only thing I have left to guess is that someone who is making this decision does not beleive that the demand is as great as what those of us looking for ammo know it to be. Why there seems to be that disconnect I do not presume to know. It would seem to be a good time for someone who wanted to enter the market to do so.

[nyffman]

I agree, i just do not understand why they would not recall the workers they have laid off.

H&H.what do you think about this possibility? Federal and other ammo manufacturers see the current demdand as being caused by hording due to fear about the future political situation. They also feel that the fear is unfounded which means that after the fear subsides, demand at the retail level will fall far below normal levels because most of the fearful consumers have much more inventory than they will use for a long time and therefore will not be buying. Therefore, no need to recall the layed off workers.

[Pat]

Interesting... I wonder what happened to all the equipment at the old TC Arsenal in Anoka? Anybody know what kind of license would be required to operate an ammunition plant?

[Veldy]

Interesting... I wonder what happened to all the equipment at the old TC Arsenal in Anoka? Anybody know what kind of license would be required to operate an ammunition plant?

They still make it. Just not nearly as much.

[Holland&Holland]

I agree, i just do not understand why they would not recall the workers they have laid off.

H&H.what do you think about this possibility? Federal and other ammo manufacturers see the current demdand as being caused by hording due to fear about the future political situation. They also feel that the fear is unfounded which means that after the fear subsides, demand at the retail level will fall far below normal levels because most of the fearful consumers have much more inventory than they will use for a long time and therefore will not be buying. Therefore, no need to recall the layed off workers.

Quite probable.

[Einthoven's Triangle]

Interesting... I wonder what happened to all the equipment at the old TC Arsenal in Anoka? Anybody know what kind of license would be required to operate an ammunition plant?

They still make it. Just not nearly as much.

Slick Willy closed most of the plants and most equipment was taken to Lake City or another location....

[1911fan]

At the time they were closing it down, all of the wood in the buildings was being Salvaged. that meant carpenters deconstructing the buildings. In one room, where they must have struck the brass into cases, the machines were mounted on concrete footings to keep the impacts from shaking the building apart. when they pulled up the floor boards, there were literally tens of thousands of cases for 5.56, BMG, .45 and 7.62 laying in the subfloor. I know guys who drove home with pick up loads of brass. I think the one tidbit i heard was about 50% were trash, either from miss hits, or what ever, but the rest was good, from when the hoppers would overflow and the surplus was just swept away.

REmember, for a long time, TCAAP was producing something like a million rounds a day.

The site has 2,383 acres and 255 buildings.

Construction on Twin Cities AAP began in August 1941, and production started in February 1942. During the war, the plant produced more than 4 billion rounds of ammunition. from 02/42 to 07/45 is approx 1240 days, 4 bil./1240=3,225,806 rounds a day, on average!!!

After World War II, it engaged in repacking ammunition and demilitarizing unusable ammunition. The repack program was completed in 1947; the demilitarization program was completed in 1951. The plant began producing ammunition again in 1950.

From 1950 to 1957, 3.5 billion rounds of small arms ammunition, 3.2 million 195-mm artillery shell metal parts, and 715,000 155-mm shell metal parts were produced. The plant was placed on standby status from August 1958 to December 1965, when it was announced that the plant would be reactivated. By September 1966, the plant was again producing ammunition. It produced more than 10 billion rounds of various types of ammunition for the Vietnam War. An enclosed range was built on the site in the late 1960s to proof test cartridges, and other aspects of the facility were modernized in the late 1960s.