Barnes Varmint grenades *solved, with video proof*

[Stradawhovious]

Anyone have any luck with these bullets in a .223 platform? These are the only ones I haven't been able to do much with. I was so hoping to find them to be workable, because they look like they have soooooo much fun when they meet up with small critters. Instead, they just seem to randomly scatter. (i'm reasonably sure it isn't the trigger actuator.) Any tricks I'm missing with these?

FTR, they were sent through a 20" Heavy barrel w/ a 1:9 twist in 5 shot groups at several different chargeweights with no discernable change in grouping or pattern.

[Pat]

Hmm... I ran the balistics of these little critters a while ago:

traj Black Hills 223 varmint grenade 36 gr.pdf

(57.71 KB) Downloaded 209 times

Have yet to shoot them. Am sorry to hear that they don't group too well.

[justaguy]

Have you measured your chamber and messed with OAL?

[JFettig]

They shot good for me out of a 16" 1-9 AR. They blew up prairie dogs pretty good.

I assume your shooting the 50gr ones right?
What powder are you running?

Have you gotten a chronograph yet? That might show you something.

Jon

[Stradawhovious]

Have you measured your chamber and messed with OAL?

I have, and I am fairly limited the magazine (AR platform). I would prefer not to make OAL any shorter.

As far as chrono readings, I am running the 50 grainers on top of Varget, and the chrono readings of each lot are pretty reasonable, only drifting by about 50fps or so. The loads themselves seem pretty consistant, I'm just not getting them to respond in the rifle. With these lots, the group size for each of 5 different charge weights (varying by .4 gr each) was almost exactly 1.5" each. Every other load I have ever worked up shows at least some movement one way or t'other so I'm a bit befuddled. I would think that even with not moving COAL, the groups or chrono readings would give some more feedback than this.

[JFettig]

So, what was the velocity?
You'll likely need a full case of varget to get those things cooking fast enough.
What is your load?

ARe you still using motor oil as lube? If so STOP.

[Stradawhovious]

ARe you still using motor oil as lube? If so STOP.

No, I have since gotten a real grownup set of dies, and real lube works just fine. And to be fair, it wasn't motor oil (thanks for planting that seed though), and was completely removed from the case. This is the only bullet I have had trouble with, so I'm pretty sure it doesn't have anything to do with case prep.

I will PM the charges to you, I'd rather not put them up on the board without directly quoting powder sites for liabilty reasons (call me a wuss if you must) but yes, it was pretty much a full case of Varget.

[JFettig]

I will PM the charges to you, I'd rather not put them up on the board without directly quoting powder sites for liabilty reasons (call me a wuss if you must) but yes, it was pretty much a full case of Varget.

I just sent Strad some load data that will make ET cry.

[Stradawhovious]

I just sent Strad some load data that will make ET cry.

Or at the very least raise his blood pressure to dangerously high levels........ I will be posting pictures of little teeny groups, or a bulged barrel and ruptured chamber whatever comes first.

[monschman]

try this, because of the design of the bullet, they work much better longer than shorter, go for about 0.020 from the lands, also a slightly higher ROT would be benificial but seems as that cannot be changed just try keeping them a little longer

[Stradawhovious]

try this, because of the design of the bullet, they work much better longer than shorter, go for about 0.020 from the lands, also a slightly higher ROT would be benificial but seems as that cannot be changed just try keeping them a little longer

Ummmm....... I am limited in OAL, and can only make them as long as the magazine will allow (which is where they are at now), hence my previous post on the subject the first time it was suggested in this thread.

It was suggested via PM that I use a different powder capable of safely pushing this pill a bit faster, and that will definately be tried. Please keep the input coming, especially you Munchie!

[MisterOblivious]

If Varget isn't grouping, isn't it time to switch powders? Perhaps something a bit faster? Are you using a drop tube to stuff all that Varget in the case or just squashing it down? I'm seeing H335 and Ramshot X-Terminator recommended. Barnes is showing Reloader-10x and AA2520.

As for the chrono/groupings, my guess is that unless you're loading them super-hot it looks like a decent amount of powder is leaving the barrel unburnt.

[hammAR]

Be a little careful with mixing loads for a bolt rife and a gas operated rifle....This is why manufacturers issue a completely separate load map for AR15s chambered in .223 Rem and 5.56x45 and a bolt rifle.....and I believe that H335 was developed for the .556x45......

for a 50 gr pill RPM is going to be the accuracy killer, optimally you would want to look at a 1:12 or even a 1:14.......just $.02....

In case you happen to get one:

Mushroom and Coyote

1 Coyote rear quarter
1 onion, sliced
1/2 cup butter or drippings
Salt and pepper
2 cups fresh mushrooms - sliced
2-3 sliced onions
2 cups water
1 bay leaf
1 Tbsp. sugar
1/8 teaspoon powdered thyme

Wash and debone quarter, brown with onion and baste with bacon fat. Add salt, pepper, water, and bay leaf. Cook 1 1/2 hours over low heat. Saute mushrooms, onion, salt and sugar together. Add to meat and continue to cook 30 more minutes. Serve with wild rice.

.

[Stradawhovious]

Thanks Gunny, I'll take care with the H335, but was going to be looking at BL-C(2) as well.

And when not if I get that yote, I'll make you some dinner.

[MisterOblivious]

Be a little careful with mixing loads for a bolt rife and a gas operated rifle....This is why manufacturers issue a completely separate load map for AR15s chambered in .223 Rem and 5.56x45 and a bolt rifle.....and I believe that H335 was developed for the .556x45......

for a 50 gr pill RPM is going to be the accuracy killer, optimally you would want to look at a 1:12 or even a 1:14.......just $.02....

Barnes recommends 1:10 or faster for these. Haven't seen them in person, but I hear they're "long for weight". Look at that big-ol cavity in a cross section photo

I've got a database generated list of powders if you want Strad. I've trimmed it to "common" powders that nearly fill the case, generate 2700fps+ and stay under 56k psi. Posting something like that on a forum is even worse than hot loads. You'll need to cross reference it.

If you want to try some AA-2230 lemme know(unopened one if ya don't trust the open one ). It hasn't been too hard to find around if you like it. Accurate recommends 23-25.5gr 2230 for the 50gr VG.