.45 AR vs .45 ACP

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.45 AR vs .45 ACP

Postby Rodentman on Sat May 14, 2011 1:11 pm

I am puzzled why Speer 14 shows this load for .45 AR:

230g LRN bullet (Speer 4690)
Unique 6.1g min, 6.6g max
CCI 300
Rem brass
OAL 1.25"

and this load for the .45 ACP

same bullet
Unique 5.3g min, 5.8g max
same primer
Speer brass
OAL 1.27"

I loaded and fired some .45 ACP with a 230g LRN bullet and 5.5g Unique, with no leading or other issues. I am curious as to why the AR load has a min charge above the ACP max charge. Same bullet, same manual. The brass difference wouldn't really matter, I assume, nor would the OAL. In fact the higher charge has a shorter OAL.

Any thoughts?
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Re: .45 AR vs .45 ACP

Postby gyrfalcon on Sat May 14, 2011 1:30 pm

"That dislike for revolver clips was pretty universal, which is why the Peters Cartridge Co. (now Remington) introduced the .45 Automatic Rimmed. The most remarkable feature of the cartridge was the very thick rim, which was required to fill the larger space between cylinder and breech face. This is much larger in .45 ACP revolvers than in normal rimmed cartridges, because of the relationship of the rim to the clip." -- by Charles E. Petty (Guns Magazine July 2001)
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Re: .45 AR vs .45 ACP

Postby rugersol on Sat May 14, 2011 2:57 pm

My best guess is, whenever they set to testing loads (whether it's jest usin' Quick Load, 'er actually shootin' 'em), it's little more 'n a whim that dictates which loads they're GONNA test. The ones that don't exhibit any problems, they publish. Ones that do, they don't publish ... along with the ones they never even tried.

Look at any two manuals ... not only are they not gonna be the same ... it's not at all uncommon fer 'em to contradict each other.

Even on one manual, even on the same day, it'd really be something if the guys testing would think to actually ATTEMPT to test the same exact loads, in comparable chamberings ... or even overlap 'em.

And that's not even accounting fer when they publish out 'n out ERRORS.

That's why it's always best to correlate 'tween AT LEAST two reputable sources ... bearing in mind, even then, one's likely to be more "conservative" than the other.
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Re: .45 AR vs .45 ACP

Postby Seismic Sam on Sat May 14, 2011 10:17 pm

The big difference is that the 45 Auto Rim is a revolver, and not a little skimpy one at that. Than means the case is completely supported back to the big, fat, rim, and it isn't going anywhere after you pull the trigger, as opposed to a 1911 45 ACP which will eject the cartridge (hopefully after the pressure drops) or a Gluck fotay-five, which doesn't support the whole cartridge until you get past the Mark II versions, and even then there is the ejection under pressure problem still there. Had one overly hot 45 Super load that ejected while the pressure was still up, and the case expanded but didn't noticably bulge at the base. (45 Super brass is damn thick at the base...) Ran it into the carbide size die, it got stuck, pulled it back out, and the carbide size ring came with it. (the die was 30 years old...) All of this is not possible with a revolver. If the cases start sticking like hot 454 Casull loads, THEN you have a problem...
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Re: .45 AR vs .45 ACP

Postby Rodentman on Sun May 15, 2011 9:41 am

Thanks, Sam, that's what I suspected. My 625 is an N frame of course, and rather robust. I'm starting with 5.6g of Eunuch with a 230g LRN bullet. I'm more concerned with leading than pushing the envelope. I'm just punching paper. But it should be fun.
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Re: .45 AR vs .45 ACP

Postby Seismic Sam on Sun May 15, 2011 2:36 pm

People have shot full power 45 Super loads (230 grain FMJ @ 1200 FPS) in 625's and lived to tell the tale. The recoil is a bit on the brisk side.
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