First rifle cartridge reload attempt = pierced primers

[Scott Notaeh]

I am sure there is lots of troll food here.

Objective is to put together an all purpose round for long range accuracy (CMP service rife?) and double as a great SHTF stockpile round that has great terminal ballistics.
Bullet is 75 gr HPBT
Rifle is 20" Bravo Co. 1:7 twist 5.56 - rife is new and I only shot around 1 box of factory before these.
LC brass - various years trimmed, sized, and chamfered
CCI 400 small rifle primer
Powder is Reloader 15
Every charge put on the scale

I loaded up 5 rounds each in a half dozen powder charges with the highest charge being 24 grains. I shot each one working my way up while watching for pressure signs on the brass. Was shooting at 140 yards and accuracy was the same until the last group highest charge at 24 grains that had a smaller group. 24 grains of Reloader 15 under the 75 grain HPBT is a very popular recipe on some of the forums too. So I loaded up 30 more rounds of 24 grains and shot them today.

After around 6 shots I had some smoke around the rife where I don't normally see it. Checked the brass and the primer is pierced where the firing pin hits it. Nothing else that I noticed and no extractor pocket mark on the case head. I decided to change out my firing pin and continue. Had another pierced primer on #28 of 30 and decided to stop. Must have high pressure?

Did the same process with another powder, IMR 8208. Highest charge was also the most accurate. Shot 30 of these today with no issues seen and it seems to be more accurate than the Reloader 15 so I think the IMR will be the selected powder but the pierced primers are still bugging me.

[monschman]

RTF......never mind. I will let other tackle this one. Be glad you didnt hurt yourself

[Norsesmithy]

AR-15s are somewhat likely to do that. Make sure that your primers are seated nice and deep in the pocket, recessed in the case head just a little.

Also consider switching to CCI 41s.

[Seismic Sam]

Are you weighing your powder with a beam balance or an electronic scale??

Also, did you swage the primer pockets to remove the military crimp??

Any signs of primer cratering on the other fired rounds??

[Scott Notaeh]

Are you weighing your powder with a beam balance or an electronic scale??

Also, did you swage the primer pockets to remove the military crimp??

Any signs of primer cratering on the other fired rounds??

My equipment is listed at the last post here: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=21972&start=75
I am using an RCBS Model 502 beam balance under florescent lights.

Swaging could be an issue. I have the RCBS pocket swager die and started out using it on 9mm and bent my rod. RCBS was super great and sent me a new one but now I am nervous. I really didn't want to mess up the little .223 rod so I went easy on them. When I was setting primers I had around 10% where the primer didn't want to start into the pocket so I set them aside to run through the swager again. Anyway, I don't think I was moving enough material.

I don't see any cratering on the other primers. They are flatened but not cratered.

[yuppiejr]

The 75 grain Hornady .224 dia. BTHP is a pretty long bullet, if my Google-Fu is working today a longer OAL where the bullet is engaging the lands early could also cause an excessive early pressure spike and pierce the primer when combined with a stout enough powder charge. Also, if you've got more than one pierced primer in your AR I'd be looking closely at the bolt face to make sure the hole in which the firing pin protrudes hasn't eroded allowing the pin to move side to side inside of the bolt at all.

[Scott Notaeh]

The 75 grain Hornady .224 dia. BTHP is a pretty long bullet, if my Google-Fu is working today a longer OAL where the bullet is engaging the lands early could also cause an excessive early pressure spike and pierce the primer when combined with a stout enough powder charge. Also, if you've got more than one pierced primer in your AR I'd be looking closely at the bolt face to make sure the hole in which the firing pin protrudes hasn't eroded allowing the pin to move side to side inside of the bolt at all.

These were loaded to mag length and are the BTHP and not the A-Max version of the 75 gr that needs to be loaded longer so I don't think I am engaging the lands if I understand this correctly. I am concerned with my firing pins and bolts. I polished the firing pins up a bit and they look ok. I will order a couple more since they are cheap.

I am thinking I might have had some higher primers with the swaging issue and I could have done a better job cleaning the pockets too.

[RAGGED]

so I don't think I am engaging the lands if I understand this correctly.

I would never assume that, pick yourself up a Hornady OAL tool and know for sure, they are not expensive. Also a deep seated bullet can cause just as much of a pressure issue as a long seated bullet, reducing the volume changes everything, pretty sure that’s not what’s going on here but still good to know. Also being a new reloader maybe start with some nice new component brass, properly prepping used military brass can take a little work, being new I would try and reduce the amount of possible F-ups in the beginning.

[yuppiejr]

The 75 grain Hornady .224 dia. BTHP is a pretty long bullet, if my Google-Fu is working today a longer OAL where the bullet is engaging the lands early could also cause an excessive early pressure spike and pierce the primer when combined with a stout enough powder charge. Also, if you've got more than one pierced primer in your AR I'd be looking closely at the bolt face to make sure the hole in which the firing pin protrudes hasn't eroded allowing the pin to move side to side inside of the bolt at all.

These were loaded to mag length and are the BTHP and not the A-Max version of the 75 gr that needs to be loaded longer so I don't think I am engaging the lands if I understand this correctly. I am concerned with my firing pins and bolts. I polished the firing pins up a bit and they look ok. I will order a couple more since they are cheap.

I am thinking I might have had some higher primers with the swaging issue and I could have done a better job cleaning the pockets too.

If you build a dummy round seating a bullet in your brass to the same OAL as the cartridges that gave you trouble and chamber it in the rifle, then eject you should be able to see on the bullet if there are marks if it's engaging the rifling. The tool mentioned above sounds like a more precice measure though.

It sounds like you are following load data based on forum-online info, If you want the official Hornady reloading data to go with that bullet and the powders you mentioned let me know and I can send you the info from their 8th edition reloading manual to compare with what you're working from when I get home from work. I imagine the 75 grain bullet is trickier to load than the typical 55-63 grain variety due to it's length and the amount of powder required to get it to the desired velocity, not a lot of room for error in OAL/COL.

[Scott Notaeh]

If you build a dummy round seating a bullet in your brass to the same OAL as the cartridges that gave you trouble and chamber it in the rifle, then eject you should be able to see on the bullet if there are marks if it's engaging the rifling. It sounds like you are following load data based on forum-online info, If you want the official Hornady reloading data to go with that bullet and the powders your mentioned let me know and I can send you the info from their 8th edition reloading manual to compare with what you're working from when I get home from work.

I have the Hornady manual (and the Speer, Lyman, and others). I am within the Hornady manual's suggested range using 24 gr of Reloader 15. I am also loaded to their COAL of 2.250 and measured almost every cartridge that I made. The 75 grain amax I mentioned uses the same chart with the same powder charges but the COAL is 2.390. I agree that I should know the distance to the lands so I will find that out.

When I say I am checking online info, I double check the manual info with what others are doing and finding effective. I like using usrifleteams.com forums but others are good too.

Now my load for the IMR 8208 XBR was a little more problematic since it is not listed in any of my books.

[Rip Van Winkle]

Scott,

24gr of RL15 is a fairly common load in Highpower circles. Having said that there are some rifles that it is just too hot a load for. For example, my CLE chambered 7.7 twist Krieger will blow primers on a hot day if I load it over 23.5gr. I've also found little difference between the 75gr bullets that come in the red box and the more expensive 77gr ones which come in the green box.

[Norsesmithy]

I really didn't want to mess up the little .223 rod so I went easy on them. When I was setting primers I had around 10% where the primer didn't want to start into the pocket so I set them aside to run through the swager again. Anyway, I don't think I was moving enough material.

I killed 2 of the .223 rods on mine, so I made my own out of a fine thread grade 8 bolt that I hardened in used motor oil (after grinding it down to approx. .220)

That bolt has since been cycled more than the two factory rods combined.

[Seismic Sam]

This is completely a theory, as I've never had a pierced primer in my life, but if the crimp isn't totally removed, consider the consequences:

You seat the primer, and the crimp reduces the diameter so the side of the primer is no longer flush and hard against the side of the primer pocket. Okay, now you pull the trigger and the high pressure gases come back through the primer hole. Normally, this will expand the primer and seal it against the case, BUT if the sides are off the case walls, the gas can get between the primer and the case. Net effect, the primer may be partially ejected from the case onto the firing pin, thus piercing the primer, and then the case comes back and reseats the primer against the bolt face. If everything else is okay, a high pressure load on a hot day may crater the primer or blow it out of the case, but piercing the primer is not exactly the same animal. This is NOT just a symptom of high pressure, something else is wrong here..

[Scott Notaeh]

This is a new rifle too so there could be some issue there. Of course I don't know what pressures I am at but I should be in the .223 range but using a 5.56 rifle.

One other item of note is that none of the accuracy was where it should have been. It was really my first time trying to shoot from a bench using a scope I had just put on the night before and I don't have a sled or chronograph.

I worked up some brass last night. Hit them a bit harder with the swager. Cleaned the pockets again so they are cleaner. Primers went into all of them fine and I made super sure they were pressed in all the way and below the head. Didn't have any that I had trouble with this time. Couldn't decide what powder charge to put in them so I stopped. Today I decided that I will set the Reloader 15 aside for now and work some more up with the IMR 8208 XBR. Will figure out where my lands are. Might trade the BCG with another rifle.

[Seismic Sam]

The only comment I have is your consideration of trading rifles, if I understood what you said correctly. The whole point of handloading is to gain experience working up loads for specific rifles you own, and the concept of switching rifles in an attempt to get away from some glitch you don't fully understand is essentially hiding your head in the sand and hoping it won't happen again. That is NOT the right attitude to have. You either LEARN what the problem is and fix it, or walk away from handloading altogether. Unless the rifle is patently defective (like one of Shippy's .25 Jennings... ), and I doubt that a gun with these specs is junk, you HAVE to figure out what's going on.

P.S. Magic marker on the bullet helps you see if it's engaging the lands or not. If it fits in the mag, I can't see how that's possible unless the ogive on these bullets is very short and blunt, and this class of bullet is meant for long range competition, so if it were that shape the B.C. would suck and it wouldn't be good for long ranges.