wanna get my feet wet/looking to start reloading

[Seismic Sam]

To help prevent "squib" loads from getting to your gun, weigh each loaded case as it comes off your press.

Use an electronic scale for fastest results.

Hate to disagree, but these two statements can pose some potentially hazardous conditions for some handloaders.

First, powder loads should be weighed as they come out of the powder measure. Then you are weighing JUST the powder so you will be sure of the weight of JUST the powder. While you may be able to spot a 30-06 squib load that is supposed to have 50 grains of powder in it after it's loaded, what about a 45 ACP load using mixed headstamp brass with cheap bullets and one of the cases has 8 grains of Titegroup instead of 4. Can the variability in the brass and the bullets add up to 4 grains?? You better beleive they can!!

And let's talk about variability in a single LOT of rifle brass. The hardcore benchrest shooters will buy an entire case of 1000, weigh every case, and cull out the 500 that are the highest and lowest weight, and sell them off to somebody who doesn't care or know any better.So, while you CAN detect a 30-06 case with no powder in it, detecting differences of a few grains may be impossible within a single lot of brass, much less multiple headstamps.

Electronic scales: There is ONLY one kind of electronic scale that is actually trustworty, and that is a jewler's scale that weighs to a precision of .001 grams. ANY scale that has the specification of .01 gram or 0.1 grain accuracy is a piece of junk, and critically flawed in its design. Doesn't matter if it costs $30 or $140. Numbers don't lie. Check out the data on pages 2 and 3. http://www.mnguntalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=17024&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15

[plblark]

Sam: I think he's talking about weighing AGAIN, AFTER you're done as a fail safe.

[rugersol]

Sam: I think he's talking about weighing AGAIN, AFTER you're done as a fail safe.

That may be.

But I believe part of the point Sam is trying to make, is in the case of Titegroup (and similarly light powders), a charge of 4.0gr is not uncommon ... moreover, most "reloading" digital scales (or any scale which purports 0.01 gram "accuracy") is ACTUALLY +/-0.2 grains ... and that, along with common variances in .45ACP brass, and .451/.452 bullets can easily read 4.0gr high/low ... at which, what you think is a squib, is not ... and what you think is not, is!

With charges of AA-7 or HS-6, such false readings would be far less likely.

[OldmanFCSA]

To help prevent "squib" loads from getting to your gun, weigh each loaded case as it comes off your press.

Use an electronic scale for fastest results.

Hate to disagree, but these two statements can pose some potentially hazardous conditions for some handloaders.

First, powder loads should be weighed as they come out of the powder measure. Then you are weighing JUST the powder so you will be sure of the weight of JUST the powder. While you may be able to spot a 30-06 squib load that is supposed to have 50 grains of powder in it after it's loaded, what about a 45 ACP load using mixed headstamp brass with cheap bullets and one of the cases has 8 grains of Titegroup instead of 4. Can the variability in the brass and the bullets add up to 4 grains?? You better beleive they can!!

And let's talk about variability in a single LOT of rifle brass. The hardcore benchrest shooters will buy an entire case of 1000, weigh every case, and cull out the 500 that are the highest and lowest weight, and sell them off to somebody who doesn't care or know any better.So, while you CAN detect a 30-06 case with no powder in it, detecting differences of a few grains may be impossible within a single lot of brass, much less multiple headstamps.

Electronic scales: There is ONLY one kind of electronic scale that is actually trustworty, and that is a jewler's scale that weighs to a precision of .001 grams. ANY scale that has the specification of .01 gram or 0.1 grain accuracy is a piece of junk, and critically flawed in its design. Doesn't matter if it costs $30 or $140. Numbers don't lie. Check out the data on pages 2 and 3. http://www.mnguntalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=17024&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15

WHOA - where did this come from - I believe a post or two back I stated I made an error when light loads are being used, this procedure may not work the best. BUT then I read your post. WHEW!!! Off the deep end again.

The guy stated he was using a Lee progressive, I went back and watched the video again, the powder dumps, the bullet is inserted, and bullet is seated. He did say he added a light to visually observe the powder. So now you're saying his visual observation of the powder in the case is to an accuracy of 0.001gram. I DON"T THINK SO !!!@

Did he weigh each powder charge to within 0.001 gram between dumping and inserting bullet? My eyesight must be failing me, because I sure did not see it happen, did you?

So what are you really saying here - is it that you don't like "electronic scales" - guess what - I don't either and don't use one to setup powder dumps, or for trickling loads to last "0.001 gram". I use my balance beam scale, but double check even that with a good Denver Actuary Scale, that is not cheap or inexpensive.

I believe you should go back and re-read the entire posting, and re-think what you wrote. Then hammer me again if you so wish!

[OldmanFCSA]

While I don't claim to be the BEST RELOADER out there, as some may think they are, I have loaded rifle, pistol, and shotgun shells for over 39 years now. I DO make mistakes - I LEARN from my mistakes - and my experience in reloading has allowed me to see a great many mistakes made by many reloaders, even those who think they are the BEST(whatever the topic may be), and LEARN from their mistakes as well as mine.

What about you? (not directed towards anybody in particular but to everyone)
Are you willing to learn?
Are you afraid to make a mistake?

You decide - .........................................................................................

[OldmanFCSA]

rukwikenuf and deadarrow - my apologies to you both for turning this topic into a pissing match.

You came here to LEARN, not to be preached at.

Do you have any more questions that the rest of the Forum Members can help you with?

And NO - this is not a BUMP - this is a serious request to get back On-Topic to best help those who are requesting.

[rukwikenuf]

hey, i'm enjoying the "Stirring of the pot"!

but seriously, there's a lot of good advice in these posts, and i have my answer. as far as the questions i'm sure i'll have, i'll post 'em up as they come, k?

[Seismic Sam]

Well, if he was talking about weighing the whole round AFTER weighing the powder before charging the case, then I stand corrected. My comments on electronic scales stand, however, based on the formal reply from Dillon that their $140 dollar electronic scales weigh in .01 gram increments, and then convert to grains, which produces variable errors which flip-flop up and down with each 0.1 grain increment. I have an $80 Cabela's scale that has a horrible amount of drift, and has to be rezeroed with each measurement, and you can see the poor thing trying to figure out the weight by flip-flopping back and forth between two numbers. Not the case with my .001 gram Mettler, which reproducibly goes up to the correct weight every time. And my Mettler confirms that my Redding beam balance is dead nuts on, so electronic balances are definitely inferior, and can lead a rookie astray.

Edited to add: DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, BUY AN ELECTRONIC SCALE WITH A PLASTIC WEIGHING PAN!! The static electricity buildup is incredible, and it just makes the scale go completely bonkers!! In weighing out 98 grain charges of Retumbo, the static was so bad I had to shake the plastic pan to get all the powder kernels to fall out!!

[OldmanFCSA]

...............................Edited to add: DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, BUY AN ELECTRONIC SCALE WITH A PLASTIC WEIGHING PAN!! The static electricity buildup is incredible, and it just makes the scale go completely bonkers!! In weighing out 98 grain charges of Retumbo, the static was so bad I had to shake the plastic pan to get all the powder kernels to fall out!!

I have to agree with the above statement !!!!!!!!!!
Same thing happens with powder dump tubes.

If you did buy one, try wiping unit and pan with dryer sheet - it has been reported to highly minimize static.
Also - do not use anywhere near flouresence bulbs with magnetic startes.

[Seismic Sam]

Also - do not use anywhere near flouresence bulbs with magnetic startes.

and sadly, most reloading setups wind up in the garage or the basement where flouescent lights are the standard kind of lights used..

[SleepingJake]

Bump!

The last month I've been studying a lot into reloading. I bought Lymans 49th Edition Reloading Handbook, that probably won't be here for another week or so . I've been lurking on a lot of different forums, reading reviews on different presses and any other guides on the internet. Looking at presses I've been poking around the thoughts of Hornadys LnL AP. Yes, its a progressive press which isn't suited for beginners, mainly because of everything that's happening at once and the fact that its extremely easy to become complacent (brass, bullet, pull & repeat). I've got plenty of time to read through all of the reloaders bibles seeing as I wouldn't be able to touch the press for another 3 months, even then I wouldn't have much time to use it for another 3 after that.

I'm open to all input, preferably constructive criticism Btw I'm planning to reload .223/5.56 and 9mm.

[rugersol]

Looking at presses I've been poking around the thoughts of Hornadys LnL AP. Yes, its a progressive press which isn't suited for beginners, mainly because of everything that's happening at once and the fact that its extremely easy to become complacent (brass, bullet, pull & repeat).

You can mount one die at a time ... nothing will happen at the other stations, as you continue to pull the lever.

You can also run one case around, at a time ... but I'd guess ya won't do that more 'n once!

Ya can also mount all the dies, and only run one case around, at a time ... at which, it becomes an auto-ejecting turret-press ... which ain't half bad!

[OldmanFCSA]

Looking at presses I've been poking around the thoughts of Hornadys LnL AP. Yes, its a progressive press which isn't suited for beginners, mainly because of everything that's happening at once and the fact that its extremely easy to become complacent (brass, bullet, pull & repeat).

You can mount one die at a time ... nothing will happen at the other stations, as you continue to pull the lever.

You can also run one case around, at a time ... but I'd guess ya won't do that more 'n once!

Ya can also mount all the dies, and only run one case around, at a time ... at which, it becomes an auto-ejecting turret-press ... which ain't half bad!

So you buy the " auto-ejecting" press, where is the proper station for "weighing the powder before charging the case" as Sam states above in his posting? Do you not mount a powder dump station? Just mount a funnel in a station, stop the process of reloading, weighing the powder, charging the case by dumping weighed charge into funnel, then resuming process.

Wouldn't BATCH loading techniques be faster and safer at that stage of reloading.

Again, what happens if powder bridges funnel opening, doesn't dump a complete charge, then over dumps on next case?
Again, this probably won't happen with very small charges of a HOT powder, but .... never say never.

My recommendation - buy the progressive press, learn its use properly, modify your loading process (style, whatever is proper word) to verify to you that case is properly charged before proceeding to next station. Some manufacturers have an electronic probe that fits into case after charging station, I don't believe they work well or at all for smaller charges in pistol cases. Learn to load properly for your situation, and accept tips from all, then sort out what applies to your application.

Good Luck !

Safe loading.
TRIGGER TIME>
Practice, practice, practice!

[rugersol]

Looking at presses I've been poking around the thoughts of Hornadys LnL AP. Yes, its a progressive press which isn't suited for beginners, mainly because of everything that's happening at once and the fact that its extremely easy to become complacent (brass, bullet, pull & repeat).

You can mount one die at a time ... nothing will happen at the other stations, as you continue to pull the lever.

You can also run one case around, at a time ... but I'd guess ya won't do that more 'n once!

Ya can also mount all the dies, and only run one case around, at a time ... at which, it becomes an auto-ejecting turret-press ... which ain't half bad!

So you buy the " auto-ejecting" press, where is the proper station to "weigh each charge before dumping into case"?

Wouldn't BATCH loading techniques be faster and safer at that stage of reloading.

Of course, the LNL-AP has a case-activated powder-measure. Once properly adjusted, locked down, and filled ... so long as ya don't short-stroke it ... 'er double-stroke it ... it's nearly impossible to F it up. I recommend to noobs to weigh every 1st drop, and 100th drop ... if they're within +/-0.2gr ... the "batch" is GTG!

Lots of guys run progressives with case-activated powder-measures producing millions of rounds, every year. The question is, at what point is a noob ok to work such a thing? I've actually seen a noob use a single-stage, charge a tray of cases ... and bulge the bbl on one gun ... and pound out a squib in 'nother ... on the same nite! ... two different calibers! Could the same guy F up a case-activated measure? ... sure! Point is, a tray's no guarantee neither!

Frankly, given the choice 'tween a tray of 50 cases, 'er a single hopper, to make sure they're "filled appropriately" ... my money's on the hopper!

[OldmanFCSA]

Of course, the LNL-AP has a case-activated powder-measure. Once properly adjusted, locked down, and filled ... so long as ya don't short-stroke it ... 'er double-stroke it ... it's nearly impossible to F it up. I recommend to noobs to weigh every 1st drop, and 100th drop ... if they're within +/-0.2gr ... the "batch" is GTG!

Lots of guys run progressives with case-activated powder-measures producing millions of rounds, every year. The question is, at what point is a noob ok to work such a thing? I've actually seen a noob use a single-stage, charge a tray of cases ... and bulge the bbl on one gun ... and pound out a squib in 'nother ... on the same nite! ... two different calibers! Could the same guy F up a case-activated measure? ... sure! Point is, a tray's no guarantee neither!

Frankly, given the choice 'tween a tray of 50 cases, 'er a single hopper, to make sure they're "filled appropriately" ... my money's on the hopper!

HOT DAMM !!! FINALLY !!!

I TOTALLY AGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU HAVE STATED HERE - and I am yelling that response to you and everyone.

THANK YOU !!!!


Now - please contact another nameless individual here and tell him, TO GET OFF HIS HIGH HORSE. His overly technical responses are not needed or ever read by most reloaders - if they even try to understand his giberish.

Note - this is NOT a personal attack, he makes some good points but overkills everything to the nth degree. We welcome his insight into reloading, but the major science has been completed by the powder companies and the publishers of reloading manuals with safety zones designed and built into their products. As long as we the reloaders stay within those zones, it does not have to be rocket science.

Thank you again.

I'm done.