Flash Hole Uniformer?

[PowderBurn14]

Hey All,

I am starting to load for .308 Win and I plan to squeeze all the accuracy I can out of my loads and rifle. I saw Midway had a Lyman flash hole uniformer on sale, but before I buy one I just wanted to see if anyone uses one and if it makes a difference in accuracy, velocity, pressure, etc. I have noticed a few burrs inside of some of the brass I have been prepping.
Would this tool be a worthy purchase or am I just wasting time and money? Thanks.

[OldmanFCSA]

Go to Gunstop.

Buy Laupua cases by the hundreds.

Buy K&M Flash Hole Uniformer which reams all to consistent size and chamfers top side of flash hole.

Buy K&M Primer Pocket Reamer to finish all pockets to same size and depth for consistent primer seating.

Buy K&M Neck Turning Tool to achieve consistent wall thickness of neck for uniform bullet pull.

Before doing any trimming and sizing of cases, learn to anneal cases properly for case uniformity and longer case life after putting all this nice work into them.

After neck turning, resize again to ensure concentricity is zero. Do not expand necks, this causes runout of bullet.
Weigh all cases & separate into 1 or 2 grain lots.
Weigh all powder charges, trickle up to last 0.1 grains.
Weigh all bullets into 0.1 or 0.2 grain lots.

Consistency, consistency, consistency,

TRIGGER TIME, TRIGGER TIME, TRIGGER TIME !!!

Have FUN - this is what we do for 50BMG cases for Match Competition.

[gyrfalcon]

... I just wanted to see if anyone uses one and if it makes a difference in accuracy, velocity, pressure, etc. I have noticed a few burrs inside of some of the brass I have been prepping. Would this tool be a worthy purchase or am I just wasting time and money? Thanks.

Of the tools you could waste money on...this one is fairly cheap and doesn't take much time to use. I haven't done any testing to show how much it helps.

[Seismic Sam]

Depends on the rifle. If it's a Remington 642 auto, trying to do any of the stuff Oldman suggested would be a big waste of money and time. If it's a $2000 new Sako, then you got something to work with. So whatizzit?

[gyrfalcon]

$11... Try not to break the bank.

[OldmanFCSA]

$11... Try not to break the bank.

Try this again - lost my posting when I tried to "Preview" it and check out link.

http://www.kmshooting.com/index.php?pg=14

Without re-typing everything - look at website carefully - it has very top quality tools for reloading.
The Lyman tool will chamfer with no uniform control on size. It will be dependent on neck dia and length.

I have a 40-step process I go thru with each case to finalize case-prep for target brass.

[gyrfalcon]

...I have a 40-step process I go thru with each case to finalize case-prep for target brass.

Does your process start with mining chalcopyrite and sphalerite from the ground?

[OldmanFCSA]

Hey All,

I am starting to load for .308 Win and I plan to squeeze all the accuracy I can out of my loads and rifle. I saw Midway had a Lyman flash hole uniformer on sale, but before I buy one I just wanted to see if anyone uses one and if it makes a difference in accuracy, velocity, pressure, etc. I have noticed a few burrs inside of some of the brass I have been prepping.
Would this tool be a worthy purchase or am I just wasting time and money? Thanks.

... I just wanted to see if anyone uses one and if it makes a difference in accuracy, velocity, pressure, etc. I have noticed a few burrs inside of some of the brass I have been prepping. Would this tool be a worthy purchase or am I just wasting time and money? Thanks.

Of the tools you could waste money on...this one is fairly cheap and doesn't take much time to use. I haven't done any testing to show how much it helps.

What was the positive purpose of this response?

...I have a 40-step process I go thru with each case to finalize case-prep for target brass.

Does your process start with mining chalcopyrite and sphalerite from the ground?

"PowderBurn14" stated, I am starting to load for .308 Win and I plan to squeeze all the accuracy I can out of my loads and rifle."

I am trying to provide as much data as I can to help prevent wasted learning time and monetary resources before getting up to speed on the process.
Smart AZZ answers do not help this process - if you have nothing constructive to add, don't ... (but sometimes I am guilty of this action, also).

I also highly recommend tumbling using SS Pins to ensure that casses are clean for weighing process. Weigh the brass only, not the brass and crud inside the brass.

[gyrfalcon]

I am trying to provide as much data as I can to help prevent wasted learning time and monetary resources before getting up to speed on the process.
Smart AZZ answers do not help this process - if you have nothing constructive to add, don't ... (but sometimes I am guilty of this action, also)...

Yeah I understand, but your critique of the Lyman product seems to suggest it's not adequate. The original poster was looking for data that shows uniforming the flash hole is worth the cost of investing in a tool to do it. I'd wager a lot of folks can produce ammunition that works just as well or almost as well as yours...but without the time that's spent performing 40 different case preparation steps.

[old guy]

Almost as good means the other guy wins

John

[OldmanFCSA]

I believe the proven process wins over speculation.

My 40 point process is for going from fired surplus to Match brass. It includes steps that would not be repeated on already processed brass. It also includes a double cleaning process and priming.

[OldmanFCSA]

The Lyman product will perform just fine, only without consistency, unless brass has been thoroughly prepped first.


OK


NOW to confess - Many of the processes performed to work your brass to Match Quality are hard to justify with concrete data. However, when you are on the Firing Line after paying your Match fees, motel rent, meals, gas, driving 1500 miles to Match and back, worrying about whether it makes a difference or not , makes it easy to justify doing it beforehand to the best of your ability, along with all the other steps, including cleaning your rifle, oiling your rifle, firing fouling shots, setting up machine rests, ectcetera .............. The CHOICE is yours!

THE BIGGEST VARIABLE TO SHOOTING ACCURATELY IS THE NUT BEHIND THE RIFLE!

TRIGGER TIME, TRIGGER TIME, TRIGGER TIME !!!

Reload ...........................................................

[yuppiejr]

While the article is primarily on accuracy of full size vs neck resizing the data he came up with regarding flash hole sizing/deburring may be of interest in this discussion:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/neck_vs_full_resizing.htm

Summary - "My conclusion from this testing is that I will deburr and neck size all of my reloads for these rifles since they appear to increase the accuracy by 31 to 35%. Neck sizing alone was beneficial, but I would not have seen a significant improvement without also deburring the flash hole. This testing also gives me some hint of the benefits of using a better brand of brass instead of the least expensive brand."

[PowderBurn14]

To Clarify, The rifle is a bolt action Howa 1500 with a 20 inch heavy barrel. The brass is new winchester brass and I do plan to neck size once the cases are fire formed. I do not compete or shoot matches, I shoot for my own enjoyment only. I thank all of you for your input, I do plan to buy the uniformer. Thanks Again, PB14

[Seismic Sam]

Okay, the neck sizing vs. full length sizing data are in conflict with Oldman's advice NOT to expand the neck, and I'm pretty sure I know why. Had a helluva time setting up my .338 Ultramag brass, and my primary big mistake was to order a .338 Ultramag Lee collet die, which has a depriming rod with pin in the middle, and then four collet fingers that come in and size the neck only while the depriming rod is stuck down the flash hole. It was so simple it seemed foolproof. I was having trouble chambering my rounds after neck resizing with this Lee die, and my SMK bullets are seated 20 mils off the lands. Bought an RCBS runout measurer, and then a neck turning set, and then a Redding type S neck sizing die, and went through hundreds of dollars in bullets and primers and powders trying to keep my runout under 1 mil. Turns out that my fired cases were under 1 mil runout, so the rifle chamber was concentric. After sizing with the @%$$*%#$#$%^ Lee collet die, the runout could INCREASE by up to 5 mils. While it wasn't as bad, the Redding Type S die did the same damn thing! The only thing that produced concentric cases was a plain old Redding FL steel resize die. At this point, I decided to duplicate and old Bonanza (from Owatonna, no less!) benchrest .223 die that had the neck expander ball as far up in the die as you could get it without the case jamming in the die. As such, when you withdrew the case from the die, the neck portion of the case was still supported by the die while it ran over the expander. The result was nearly perfect concentric brass with the proper ID neck size. I'm sure Oldman must have a benchrest seating die with a floating collet that holds the case in exact alignment with the bullet, so when you seat the bullet it can't go off center. But his advice not to expand the neck is valid UNLESS you are using the old Bonanza system, because OD neck sizing alone or ID neck sizing alone CAN make the neck go off center.

Based on the data presented, the group size reduction by uniforming the primer pocket and flash hole seem to have a noticable effect on accuracy, so I may be off to Gunstop in the near future. I wouldn't have believed that uniforming the primer flash hole could have that much effect, but maybe it does.