XM193F brass

[gman1868]

I've shot up around 200 rounds. They do go bang quite nicely. I've begun to save them but I've noticed a few things that have me concerned.

The cases aren't polished, the primers are lacquered so I can't tell if the ridge is from a crimp in the pocket or just some kind of strange staking of the primer. I've googlied it and I see a number of threads that proclaim the poor quality of the lake city brass (LCO head stamp) and the need to swage and de-burr the primer pockets if one intends to reload them. It also appears as though the letters after them XM193 only indicate the packaging: XM193F in 20 round boxes, XM193BK in bulk, etc. Otherwise the rounds themselves are the same.

I was wondering what the like of Sam and the other experienced dudes can tell the rest of us what they know and how much work it will be to load them, or if it's even worth it. One person already warned me that Federal brass is pooptie.

[MaryB]

I just prepped a bunch of Lake City brass, seems much higher quality than the federal junk. Primer pocket crimp is easy to remove, I use the Lee deburring tool but a drill bit would be faster. I am in no hurry and do it while watching TV or a movie.

[Rip Van Winkle]

Federal brass tends to be slightly softer than other brands and has a slightly thinner case head (see pict). Dimensionally it's good brass but it's only good for one or two loadings before the primer pockets loosen up to where they won't hold a primer.

LC brass is a whole nother animal and is widely considered quality brass. Back when ATK was running the Lake City Ordinance Plant it wasn't uncommon to find ammo in Federal packaging loaded with LC brass.

[Seismic Sam]

Yeah, Lake City is good brass!! The only problem is the crimped primer pocket. If you ONLY have a few hundred to do EVER, in your whole life, then you can get by with the cheap RCBS primer pocket swager, but it's a bit of a PITA. Otherwisde get the Dillon.

[yuppiejr]

Question - I had been playing with the different crimp swager solutions on the market (RCBS, Dillon, etc..) and ended up settling on the Redding Primer Pocket Uniformer which both took care of the crimp and, as it's name implies, uniforming the primer pocket while at it with a LOT less effort (either hand spinning the tool head in the primer pocket or chucking it up in a cordless drill). Is there a disadvantage to "cutting" tools like this (or the Hornady version of the same) versus the Dillon/RCBS swager approach when removing military crimps?

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/804809 ... er-package

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/764406 ... tool-small

[Rip Van Winkle]

Primer crimps can be removed with a VLD style deburing tool or the pocket uniformers mentioned above, but if your doing more than a couple hundred brass it's a PITA. I'd recommend the Dilon Super Swage. It's money well spent.

[snlit3]

Dillon super swage <3

[JFettig]

Federal brass tends to be slightly softer than other brands and has a slightly thinner case head (see pict). Dimensionally it's good brass but it's only good for one or two loadings before the primer pockets loosen up to where they won't hold a primer.

LC brass is a whole nother animal and is widely considered quality brass. Back when ATK was running the Lake City Ordinance Plant it wasn't uncommon to find ammo in Federal packaging loaded with LC brass.

New federal cases have thick bases. I just sectioned a FC 06 case and FC .223 case which were manufactured since 06. both measured .070" Early federal brass was weak, now its much better.

[Hoot]

If you go by weight as an indication of how much brass is being used, I was very surprised when I weighed some deprimed, cases I had pin tumbled to see which weighed the most. I expected LC or FC 5.56 to own that specification, but after 10 of each brand that I could find 10 of, PMC was significantly heavier than any other, aside from IMI, which was the same weight as PMC.

Guess you can't judge a case solely by it's weight as I don't see folks going on about the strength of PMC cases.

Hoot

[Rip Van Winkle]

New federal cases have thick bases. I just sectioned a FC 06 case and FC .223 case which were manufactured since 06. both measured .070" Early federal brass was weak, now its much better.

That's interesting, I was given some FC06 from a military reserve shooter. The primer pockets starting loosening up after 2 loads so I bagged them up and put them on the shelf. I may have to section one and see for myself.

[Hoot]

New federal cases have thick bases. I just sectioned a FC 06 case and FC .223 case which were manufactured since 06. both measured .070" Early federal brass was weak, now its much better.

That's interesting, I was given some FC06 from a military reserve shooter. The primer pockets starting loosening up after 2 loads so I bagged them up and put them on the shelf. I may have to section one and see for myself.

Lately a lot of LC 5.56, 1-fired brass have had looser than I'm comfortable with primer pockets as soon as I give them their first cleaning and prep. I have both an RCBS swaging and reaming type crimp removers and it doesn't seem to matter which I use. The resulting pocket tension is inconsistent from one round to the next. Small wonder they crimp them in. I have not developed a gauging method to cull out the loose ones, other than the few that are egregiously loose and can be detected with the swaging crimp removal die from the get-go. The result is that I throw away a lot of small rifle primers in the case they're pressed into due to lack of confidence in the seating resistance exhibited while priming them using a Lee Hand Primer. I prefer it since it affords a good feel for resistance. I do not extract and reuse live primers. This is just me, but I feel live primer performance changes each time they are inserted and extracted. For experimenting, I like to reduce the inconsistencies I have control over.

LC brass from back around 2005 that I saved, seem to have more consistent primers. I have not seen any cases with the staked primer crimps yet, but I'm always a year or two behind the freshness curve.

Hoot

[JFettig]

I don't know when they switched over, but they did switch over to a different bunting process to create the heads and primer pockets which makes harder bases and better primer retention. They were staked back in the day for a reason they still stake them for consistency. Still not sure if they'll hold up as good as LC brass.

I have not personally reloaded much of the latest FC stuff, especially multiple times because I have a good stash of LC brass still. A big batch is getting shot next year for the last time so I'll have to see what it gets replaced with.

[BigDog58]

I don't know why you think thr RCBS Swaging tool is a PITA Sam? Of course I don't have your experience, but I use mine with my Lee Single stage press and can fly through the crimped primer pockets about as fast as I can manipulate the handle. I have only had to swage about 200 30/06 Lake City cases so far, but it went very smoothly and pretty quickly. I have only seen the Dillon displayed above, operated on a YouTube video, but it appeared quite handy as well. Maybe I'll have a different opinion about the RCBS after I do the 500 .556 I just got. I'll try to post the outcome once I get them completed.

[FJ540]

Super swage is possible to do a few hundred cases an hour. I burned through 1K in a little over 2 hours.

Swaging replaces the material keeping your mass consistent. Using a removal method leads to inconsistent wall surface area and possibly tension variations.

[BigDog58]

Super swage is possible to do a few hundred cases an hour. I burned through 1K in a little over 2 hours.

Swaging replaces the material keeping your mass consistent. Using a removal method leads to inconsistent wall surface area and possibly tension variations.

I guess I am going to have to come see your setup and see something new. I am ALWAYS eager to learn a new method and visit a friend