Win 22 Cal 64 gr PP

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Win 22 Cal 64 gr PP

Postby Duff-Man on Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:19 am

Ok so I got some 64 gr PP bullets from win, and some benchmark, plenty of empty 5.56 cases that have been preped and some small rifle primers.

I set the bullet depth and crimp which was a pain the arse (most likely to me not doing it right)

But I don't have any load data for this combo

Closest I can find is for a 63 gr bullet using 22 grs as a starting load. So should I start at 21.5 grs for the 64 gr bullet?
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Re: Win 22 Cal 64 gr PP

Postby Hoot on Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:18 am

Duff-Man wrote:Ok so I got some 64 gr PP bullets from win, and some benchmark, plenty of empty 5.56 cases that have been preped and some small rifle primers.

I set the bullet depth and crimp which was a pain the arse (most likely to me not doing it right)

But I don't have any load data for this combo

Closest I can find is for a 63 gr bullet using 22 grs as a starting load. So should I start at 21.5 grs for the 64 gr bullet?


Since this is a new bullet for you, did you check to see at what COL, it engages the lands in your particular barrel? I ask because there's a little more to picking a starting load than just a safe charge based upon someone else' barrel. If your particular barrel was reamed such that the bullet is into the lands at the COL you wind up using, that charge might be on the stiff side. Nothing wrong with working up a load that has the bullet in the lands as long as you work up to it and not just start out that way. The effort spent measuring will pay off.
Notice I'm not debasing you. I'll wait for more information before advising further though.

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Re: Win 22 Cal 64 gr PP

Postby Duff-Man on Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:32 am

The three sources I checked for COL listed 2.20 when I measured while getting the bullet depth I got 2.21 so that should be good. I haven't chambered a dummy round yet, but I will this afternoon.
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Re: Win 22 Cal 64 gr PP

Postby Hoot on Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:44 am

Duff-Man wrote:The three sources I checked for COL listed 2.20 when I measured while getting the bullet depth I got 2.21 so that should be good. I haven't chambered a dummy round yet, but I will this afternoon.


There your go! If the particular rifle is an autoloader, ease the dummy round into position, feeling along the way for resistance. Don't just let it slam shut. Before chambering it, blacken the bullet with a sharpie. when you ease it back out, inspect the bullet for land marks. Stop me when I'm being too simplistic. I do not know your level of reloading skill.

If your COL does not put the bullet into the lands, then 21.5gr will be a good starting point. Maybe even 21.0 for good measure if it's hot out.

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Last edited by Hoot on Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Win 22 Cal 64 gr PP

Postby LarryFlew on Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:44 am

Duff-Man wrote:The three sources I checked for COL listed 2.20 when I measured while getting the bullet depth I got 2.21 so that should be good. I haven't chambered a dummy round yet, but I will this afternoon.


I like to set a bullet very loosely and long in a blank cartridge and chamber it. Then measure it for your max COL. If I have multiple rifles of the same caliber I check them all and go with the shortest unless loading for a long one for accuracy. That way they will be sure to fit in all of them. Good idea for starting for pistol also as some (like CZ) like a shorter COL to keep from being against the lands when fired which adds a LOT of pressure. Being close so you don't leave a lot of jump space before the bullet gets to the lands is usually the most accurate.

To just answer the basic question, probably fine to start with the same as the 63 chart but...........................
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Re: Win 22 Cal 64 gr PP

Postby Duff-Man on Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:41 am

Hoot wrote:
Duff-Man wrote:The three sources I checked for COL listed 2.20 when I measured while getting the bullet depth I got 2.21 so that should be good. I haven't chambered a dummy round yet, but I will this afternoon.


There your go! If the particular rifle is an autoloader, ease the dummy round into position, feeling along the way for resistance. Don't just let it slam shut. Before chambering it, blacken the bullet with a sharpie. when you ease it back out, inspect the bullet for land marks. Stop me when I'm being too simplistic. I do not know your level of reloading skill.

If your COL does not put the bullet into the lands, then 21.5gr will be a good starting point. Maybe even 21.0 for good measure if it's hot out.

Hoot


Should have mentioned standard AR with a 5.56 chamber. Did the sharpie test no evidence of land marks, and for added measure (pun intended) I measured a commercial round and it was 2.25.
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Re: Win 22 Cal 64 gr PP

Postby Rip Van Winkle on Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:17 pm

I don't know of any .223/5.56 chamber which wouldn't chamber bullets loaded to magazine length.

Having said that, I have no experience with either the bullet or powder your asking about.
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Re: Win 22 Cal 64 gr PP

Postby Seismic Sam on Mon Jun 24, 2013 5:53 pm

I didn't see any mention of land twist. I have two loads here from Nosler #7, with one for a FAST 1:7 twist for 60 - 62 grain bullets, and Benchmark is listed as the most accurate load. For the Nosler Ballistic Tip and partition COL is 2.260" and for the Varmageddon it's 2.180". For Benchmark the range is 21.5 - 23.5, with 2932 to 3136 FPS results. Most accurate load is 22.5 grains. for 3048 FPS.

For a 1:12 twist rifle with a 64 grain Nosler bonded solid base, the range is 21.0 - 23.0 Benchmark with a COL od @.175" and velocity of 2767 - 2906. Unfortunately CFE 223 is the most accurate powder tested.
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Re: Win 22 Cal 64 gr PP

Postby Duff-Man on Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:34 pm

Just when I thought I was starting to get a handle on this stuff, guess I got some homework.

I have a 1:7 twist so the fast load.

For arguments sake lets say I want this to be as accurate as I can get (at this point I'm just making practice ammo that won't ruin my day) what tools/equipment should I look into?
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Re: Win 22 Cal 64 gr PP

Postby Hoot on Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:38 pm

Duff-Man wrote:Just when I thought I was starting to get a handle on this stuff, guess I got some homework.

I have a 1:7 twist so the fast load.

For arguments sake lets say I want this to be as accurate as I can get (at this point I'm just making practice ammo that won't ruin my day) what tools/equipment should I look into?


First, get to a point where what you have is holding you back from getting more accurate. Then consider spending more money. That 1:7 means more resistance to the bullet going down the barrel, as the lands are vectoring its forward thrust into circular rotation more than a slower twist barrel. That resistance translates to more pressure for the same powder charge. Maybe 21gr to start with is looking a little better. IMHO, your twist will benefit you a lot more if you like hanging around with the heavier, which usually equates to longer, .224 bullets. They need higher RPM to stabilize. You will do worse having too little twist than too much, where accuracy is concerned. If you were just interested in throwing lightweight pills at high velocity, then yes, a slower twist would be more optimum.

I have a Savage Model 12 BTVS which only has a 1:12 twist. Shoots 55gr and down like a laser, but it begins to struggle at 60gr and will not shoot the Hornady 68 and Sierra 69 BTHP bullets very well at the velocities I prefer.

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Re: Win 22 Cal 64 gr PP

Postby Seismic Sam on Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:43 pm

Forster resize die that guarantees that case is concentric after FL resizing. Regular FL dies and Redding Type S neck dies can't do this, so don't even try. The explanation is long, and I've said it at least 3 time s in other threads. Brass has to be segregated to one headstamp and preferably weighed to cull out the outlyers in the weight. Get a Redding Benchrest seating die. If it's a gas gun forget all of the above. If it's a bolt gun and a GOOD one, then this may be worth it.
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Re: Win 22 Cal 64 gr PP

Postby Rip Van Winkle on Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:49 pm

Duff-Man wrote:For arguments sake lets say I want this to be as accurate as I can get (at this point I'm just making practice ammo that won't ruin my day) what tools/equipment should I look into?

As accurate as I can get is a pretty abstract standard.

If your interested in reloading the most accurate ammo possible, I would recommend this book.

Image

I personally find Zediker's writing style annoying but I can't find anything wrong with what he recommends.

I also have an autographed copy. ;)
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Re: Win 22 Cal 64 gr PP

Postby BigDog58 on Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:29 pm

Rip Van Winkle wrote:
Duff-Man wrote:For arguments sake lets say I want this to be as accurate as I can get (at this point I'm just making practice ammo that won't ruin my day) what tools/equipment should I look into?

As accurate as I can get is a pretty abstract standard.

If your interested in reloading the most accurate ammo possible, I would recommend this book.

Image

I personally find Zediker's writing style annoying but I can't find anything wrong with what he recommends.

I also have an autographed copy. ;)



Thanks for posting this. I have been looking for a good Loading Accurate Ammo book to study. OldmanFCSA has taught me a great deal and this book will only enhance my technique.

Sam, thanks for pointing out a good resizing and seating die to enhance my loading accuracy. I was looking at both the Forster and Redding dies, but wasn't certain which would work best at each step. I am loading 30/06, 25/06 and .243 for accuracy and I believe I have taken my current dies to their limits. These should enhance the accuracy of my ammo tremendously.
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Re: Win 22 Cal 64 gr PP

Postby OldmanFCSA on Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:14 am

I prefer Redding Dies, but RCBS and Hornady dies can be accurate also.

If you use a universal de-capping die, then I modify the sizing die to put expander up near neck in sizing die. Lube case, inside neck and outside, stroke case up into sizing die, adjust expander rod up until it contacts brass inside neck of case, screw down 1/2 turn and tighten lock mechanism while holding withdrawal tension on it. This will give you very close to zero run-out of case neck to body. Case neck will be expanded while still in neck of die holding it centered, last little bit of neck will follow first part. Of course this method requires no variation of neck wall thickness to be most accurate. (I neck-turn my target brass for best results.)

Feel free to contact me for more info if needed.
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Re: Win 22 Cal 64 gr PP

Postby Duff-Man on Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:38 am

OldmanFCSA wrote:I prefer Redding Dies, but RCBS and Hornady dies can be accurate also.

If you use a universal de-capping die, then I modify the sizing die to put expander up near neck in sizing die. Lube case, inside neck and outside, stroke case up into sizing die, adjust expander rod up until it contacts brass inside neck of case, screw down 1/2 turn and tighten lock mechanism while holding withdrawal tension on it. This will give you very close to zero run-out of case neck to body. Case neck will be expanded while still in neck of die holding it centered, last little bit of neck will follow first part. Of course this method requires no variation of neck wall thickness to be most accurate. (I neck-turn my target brass for best results.)

Feel free to contact me for more info if needed.


Is this info in a book? If not you and Sam need to write a book.
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