Vetting Rimfire Ammo for the Savage MKII

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Vetting Rimfire Ammo for the Savage MKII

Postby Hoot on Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:46 am

While I realize that threads like this are quite ubiquitous, I decided to chronicle my experiment for the benefit of folks considering purchasing a Savage MKII BTVS, though it details the methodology one can employ when determining what ammunition any rimfire rifle likes.

Over the 4th of July weekend, I purchased a MKII-BTVS rifle for several reasons. First and foremost, I love thumb hole stocks. My three Model 12’s and my Rem 700 Varminter all wear them, along with my Ruger 10/22 and 10/17. They just fit me and are comfortable to shoot. I also wanted to step into a Rimfire rifle that was more attuned to accuracy, yet affordable. I chose the Savage brand because I like Savages. They’re like “the little train that could” brand. Like my other Savages, the bore got a good scrubbing with JB compound before the first shot ever left it. Judging from the flecks and slivers that came out, it was time well spent. It also did the standard trigger job, leaving it for the moment at 1.5 pounds. I didn’t want to take too much off of a trigger with no mechanical wear yet. As my barber is fond of saying, “I can always take more off, but I can’t put it back on.”

I do read before venturing and unlike the centerfire calibers which a reload for, I went in understanding that I was at the mercy of the ammo manufacturer when rimfire is involved. Aside from general attributes of quality (or lack of it) associated with some brands, each rifle is an island that needs to be charted as to what ammunition works best with it. I posted on a local forum, what I was up to and a local member contacted me to get me some of the broken boxes he had left over from when they did the same thing. Combined with the few I already had, I wound up with 24 candidates to experiment with. For me, this is the ultimate form of enriching my shooting experience.

Here’s the candidates:

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As I have said before, shooting from a vise or Lead Sled is as far from fun as you can get. I like to shoot my rifles, not operate a machine that does it for me. However, I wanted to test my rifle and the ammunition, not my shooting skills. There’ll be plenty of time for that later. So, I utilized my Dad’s Lead Sled with a Velcro strap that fit over the rear of the stock, to keep the setup as reproducible as possible after cleaning the bore.

Here’s a view of my lash-up:

Image

Nothing professional to see there. Just making the best of what I had available.
The scope I used was a Bushnell Elite 4200 6-24x40 because it sits as close to the bore as possible without the adjustable objective scraping when I turn it. I did employ a cant indicating level, again, to minimize another variable.

Though I knew that a seasoned barrel typically shoots better, I elected to clean the chamber and bore and shoot three foulers through it every time I changed ammo. While that got old quick, I had no other way to maintain a level playing field for all the different ammo involved across 240 shots. While not the best environment for noteworthy groups, returning the barrel to the same starting point at each ammo change was a good compromise. My logic being that if a particular kind of ammo shot well in a freshly cleaned barrel, it would only do better later when shot through a seasoned one. I also elected to shoot 10-shot, 50 yard strings instead of 3 or the more common 5. I was more interested in discovering trends than producing brag-worthy target porn. I also did not change the scope zero once I began testing to give perspective to how groups move around as a function of velocity. That’s a common phenomenon in centerfire shooting.

While I was more interested in groups, I set up my chronograph also, mostly to see the velocities my rifle produced versus the manufacturer’s claims. Messing with that as the sun arced across the sky wound up being a distraction at times, but luckily, the Lead Sled cannot feel frustration.

Here’s my downrange view of the 50 yard target box:

Image

The first days weather was picture perfect. The temperature started out at 66 at 9 AM, but by the time I finished around 3 PM, it was 83. Humidity was comfortable and it was still enough for the mosquitoes to hover around my insecticide covered carcass like smoke at a card game.

For those of you with a short attention span, here is a quick ranked list of how they performed. The 10-shot, 50yard group size in inches, is at the end of each entry in <brackets>. The particular target associate with the group is at the front.

Updated 7/20/13

T5-4 SK Standard Plus <.422>
T6-1 Winchester Subsonic HP <.493>
T2-1 CCI Standard Velocity <.524>
T7-4 Eley Black Box Match <.526>
T4-2 Remington - Eley Target Rifle <.547>
T1-1 Aguila Golden Eagle Target <.591>
T4-1 PMC Match Rifle <.631>
T7-2 CCI MiniMag 40gr <.777>
T1-3 Aguila Match Rifle <.789>
T5-3 RWS Target Rifle <.801>
T3-3 Fiocchi MAXAC <.816>
T7-3 CCI MiniMag <.862>
T5-1 Remington Yellow Jacket HP <.868>
T2-4 Federal Premium HV Match <.886>
T4-3 Remington Subsonic <.894>
T7-1 Remington Govt Match <.940>
T6-3 Remington GB Bulk (Sorted) <.973>
T1-2 Aguila Match Pistol <1.02>
T6-2 Winchester M22 Bulk (Unsorted) <1.108>
T2-3 Federal Champion 40gr (Unsorted) <1.132>
T2-2 CCI Stinger HP <1.141>
T3-2 Federal AutoMatch Bulk (Unsorted) <1.142>
T1-4 Aguila SuperExtra Standard Velocity <1.444>
T8-1 Federal Champion 36gr (Unsorted) <1.472>
T6-4 Remington HV <1.497>
T3-1 Federal Premium Target <1.716>
T4-4 Remington Viper <1.76>
T5-2 RWS Subsonic HP <1.978>
T3-4 Fiocchi SuperMatch SM320 <2.156>

So, it looks like my rifle is a “cheap date”!

Here is a spreadsheet of their performance for those who enjoy a good spreadsheet:

Image

At certain times of the day, the sun angle caused the chronograph to not pick up the bullets. The sun is accepting complaints at this time, but there is a backlog due to it being summer.

What follows are the target images. For bandwidth purists, I apologize for not cropping them down to just the groups. I felt that seeing where the groups fell was equally as interesting as how tight (or not) they were.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
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Being a “Walter Mitty”, scientist wannabe, the effort was enjoyable despite being tedious. It wound up taking two days at the local range to complete. I have four remaining types of ammo that arrived after the big range sessions. This coming Saturday promises to be a carbon copy of the first outing. Though it’s been stifling hot all week, the weather gods are giving us an uncommon nice weekend. I will update my results from that third outing. I’ve pretty much decided and ordered ammunition that will last me into the foreseeable future based upon my tests. Whether that ammo performs like the example of it that I used in testing, remains to be seen. That too will provide an educational opportunity about lot variations. Hopefully I will not be pouting with buyer’s remorse. I will report on that as well.

Though not in the scope of this test, my 10/22 heavy barrel with the Volquartzen trigger has gotten incredibly jealous of all the attention that the new girl has gotten. Since I have many of the broken boxes of test ammo still available, I will give the old (1981) girl a dinner out at the bullet buffet in a little while. Gotta keep the peace in the safe y’know.

Respectfully submitted,

Hoot
Last edited by Hoot on Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Vetting Rimfire Ammo for the Savage MKII

Postby minnesotatv on Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:56 pm

Great post Hoot.
Thanks for sharing.
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Re: Vetting Rimfire Ammo for the Savage MKII

Postby igofast on Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:19 pm

Great stuff. Would you believe I picked the top shooter based on the initial pic of candidates? SK Standard Plus is the same as Wolf Match Target and is my go-to for reasonable priced accuracy ammo and have yet to find a .22 that doesn't like it.

Another data point you may consider adding to your spreadsheet is cost per round. I found that while Wolf was the most accurate, CCI Blazer was only a little less accurate for 1/2 the cost.

Another experience that mirrors yours: Aguila doesn't perform nearly as well as it should for the cost. I've tried several flavors and never gotten results I've felt were acceptable.

Finally, was surprised to see how poorly Federal did. Not sure what the model of Premium Target you were shooting, I've had similar results with 711b, but 719 has been a good shooter. Additionally, AutoMatch has been a go-to for my 10/22, but it may be more optimized for semi-auto's.

It's a shame you didn't get any Armscor - that stuff would have given the RWS Subsonic a run for it's money - it's the worst shooting stuff I've encountered so far.

Looking forward to the results of your last day of shooting.
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Re: Vetting Rimfire Ammo for the Savage MKII

Postby Hoot on Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:47 pm

igofast wrote:...snip...Finally, was surprised to see how poorly Federal did. Not sure what the model of Premium Target you were shooting, I've had similar results with 711b, but 719 has been a good shooter. Additionally, AutoMatch has been a go-to for my 10/22, but it may be more optimized for semi-auto's....snip...


As a matter of fact, the Federal Premium HV Match was 719 and the Federal Premium Target was 711B. It was nice not having a favorite in the game as I was not rooting for any particular brand. Given the reputation of Federal Match Grade centerfire ammunition I must admit, I was surprised at it's performance also. Who knows, maybe I got one of those Friday, end of shift, 3-day holiday weekend lot. More than once, the words "I didn't expect that!" went through my mind while testing.

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Re: Vetting Rimfire Ammo for the Savage MKII

Postby Hoot on Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:26 pm

Tomorrow (Saturday's) Line-up will be:

Federal Champion 36gr (already did the 40gr)
Remington US Govt Match 40gr (White box)
CCI MiniMag 36gr
CCI MiniMag 40gr
Eley Match 40gr (Black Box)

Identical test setup as before.

Hoot
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Re: Vetting Rimfire Ammo for the Savage MKII

Postby SparkyJeff on Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:49 pm

Hoot wrote:Tomorrow (Saturday's) Line-up will be:

Federal Champion 36gr (already did the 40gr)
Remington US Govt Match 40gr (White box)
CCI MiniMag 36gr
CCI MiniMag 40gr
Eley Match 40gr (Black Box)

Identical test setup as before.

Hoot


This is the part where we start placing bets, right? 8-)
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Re: Vetting Rimfire Ammo for the Savage MKII

Postby shooter115 on Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:15 am

Good stuff Hoot.
As for bets....I'll put my money on the Eley black box
I'm also kinda surprised to see the Fed's doing so poorly. The automatch has been pretty good to me out of my VQ barreled 10/22.
That said I think it's pretty tough to beat the CCI std velocity for the money.
I also expect the Rem gov white box to do well. I'm fairly confident that it's actually Eley primed as well.
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Re: Vetting Rimfire Ammo for the Savage MKII

Postby SparkyJeff on Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:17 am

shooter115 wrote:...
That said I think it's pretty tough to beat the CCI std velocity for the money...

I still remember my first "dead center" "one hole" 10 round group.
A few amused/confused strangers at the range might remember it too.
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Re: Vetting Rimfire Ammo for the Savage MKII

Postby Jack's My dog on Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:14 am

What? No wildcats? What is the size of the grid on the targets? Half-3/4 inch?
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Re: Vetting Rimfire Ammo for the Savage MKII

Postby mc762x54R on Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:40 am

wow great post - I have a mark II BV. Mine likes the CCI subsonic too, along with Stingers and standard velocity CCI's

It also really likes CCI Blazer 40g LRN

I shot a 5-shot 1 inch group at 100yards with Federal automatch...one time, but I was never able to repeat it.
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Re: Vetting Rimfire Ammo for the Savage MKII

Postby justinvan on Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:48 am

I am surprised the fed Champion 510 did not do better. Most of my .22's love the stuff.
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Re: Vetting Rimfire Ammo for the Savage MKII

Postby justinvan on Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:49 am

I am surprised the fed Champion 510 did not do better. Most of my .22's love the stuff.
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Re: Vetting Rimfire Ammo for the Savage MKII

Postby Hoot on Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:17 pm

If your bets were on the Eley, they were a safe bet.

I'm starting to get the feeling that even strapped in the Lead Sled. Once your 10-shot, 50 yard groups are down in the .6 inch and less range, even the Lead Sled can be influenced by the shooter. I mean it does have pads upon which the stock sits and they do give a little when you press on the rifle. In the case of my setup. Once the crosshairs are lined up on the bull, other than a gentle pinch between the trigger guard and trigger, I try not to influence it. Still, it shifted off target every shot a little bit. The Sled Az-El and/or the scope cant had to be touched up. Some of that occurred from the recoil and some from cycling the bolt. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want it any other way. The rifle was already so controlled, it's reassuring to know its still alive. That's a philosophical issue I currently deal with. How controlled should the gun be and the shooter still get credit for shooting it? I'll leave that debate for a different thread.

Back to the testing and before I forget, several people have inquired about my target grid dimension. They are 1/2 inch. I didn't mention that as I assumed folks would gauge the results based upon the size of the bullet holes. Sorry about that. I designed the target along with standalone 1-up versions in 1/2, 1, 1-1/2 and 2 inch bulls. I have them stored in my cloud space. If you want a link to them, drop me a PM.

Here's the smaller spreadsheet of the 5 late-comer candidates. Unlike the first one, they are not ranked smallest to largest group, but in order of occurrence. I could have merged them into the original spreadsheet and updated it, but it already takes up a lot of space on the screen. I did update the original simple ranking list to include the new results.

Image

The resultant target images follow:

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I'm happy with the effort spent characterizing this different ammunition for my rifle. My thanks to those who helped me get hold of it. I will follow up this thread when the stuff I wound up ordering arrives. Mainly to speak to how reliable it is buying ammunition not from the same lot that you used to determine that your rifle likes it best. The SK Standard Plus I have coming is in two different lots, based upon the numbers printed on the end of the brick boxes. Too bad I didn't ask the fellow selling it that question before buying it. Hindsight is 20:20 ;)

I hope everyone enjoyed reading this almost as much as I enjoyed getting there.

I leave you with one caveat. Even if you own the exact same model rifle as me, my results should always be viewed as specific to my rifle and the particular lots of ammunition I shot in it. Do your own testing with your rifle for the final word. IMHO, the middle ground groups are more impacted by slight variations in manufacturing for the same rifle or ammo models. Both the good and the bad ends are probably reliable indicators of where the performance is likely to be the same though.

Hoot
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Re: Vetting Rimfire Ammo for the Savage MKII

Postby Jack's My dog on Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:42 pm

mc762x54R wrote:wow great post - I have a mark II BV. Mine likes the CCI subsonic too, along with Stingers and standard velocity CCI's

It also really likes CCI Blazer 40g LRN

I shot a 5-shot 1 inch group at 100yards with Federal automatch...one time, but I was never able to repeat it.



I have a Mark II as well. I have shoot a five shot group you could cover with a nickel at 100yds with Winchesters from a 333 bulk pack.....probably will never have a group that good from a .22 for the rest of my life. These Savage Bolt guns are amazing.
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Re: Vetting Rimfire Ammo for the Savage MKII

Postby igofast on Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:41 am

Hoot wrote:The SK Standard Plus I have coming is in two different lots, based upon the numbers printed on the end of the brick boxes. Too bad I didn't ask the fellow selling it that question before buying it. Hindsight is 20:20 ;)

Hoot


D'oh! Luckily I've found this brand to be consistent lot-to-lot. I know hardcore guys like to have everything the same, but I would submit that the rifle changes over time and may like the rounds more or less after 500/1000/2000/5000 shots anyways.

You alluded to weighing the bulk ammo, so I know you are familiar with the concept. If you're trying to squeeze a smidge more consistency, I've found that the cited ammo has an ES of ~3 grains. I can't say whether that difference is from the bullet, the charge, the primer, the lube, or the case - but by getting out the electronic scale(tried using a beam scale but waaaay to tedious) and grouping them to the nearest .2 gr(current accuracy of my scale) would prevent flyers.

Not a big deal if you're popping squirrels, but in competition every bit helps.
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