Shot my first reloads, couple questions

[kthnkl]

Greetings all I posted awhile back while I was exploring the idea of reloading.. I finally set up a Dillon 650 and loaded my first rounds today. I shot 40 of them and all worked better then I could have expected. I loaded 5.3gr of 3N37 under 124gr 9mm RMR plated. Using a HK P30, I put about 10 rounds through the same 3 holes center bulls-eye at 15 feet before I backed it up and increased the pace.. I don't think I've ever done that with factory ammo with such ease.

I was only loading two rounds at a time and I was having major issues with the slide locking back empty. I noticed this ammo is really really soft shooting do I need to increase the charge to get the gun to function correctly or is it more likely a magazine issue? 5.2 is listed as the minimum charge for 1102 FPS (seems high for a minimum charge?) but it's definitely on the low end. I didn't think to try a different magazine (I was too stoked about how well my ammo was working to think clearly...) I usually use the same one every time I shoot and never have had a problem, although I always load 10-15 at a time instead of 2..

I'm also curious of the benefits of working the load up in general, what's the point?

My next question is regarding OAL.. 1.142 is listed as the min OAL so I aimed for 1.144, I measured every round that came out and I got a spread of about 1.142 - 1.148. Is this normal or do I have an issue to work out with my seating die?

Thanks a lot for all the wisdom around here, I have been browsing this forum and a few others for months just soaking up everything I can.

[aht_six]

It does sound like the load may be too lite to operate the action properly. The Lapua web site recommends 5.4 grains as a minimum with a 124 grain Rainer plated bullet. http://www.lapua.com/en/products/reloading/vihtavuori-reloading-data/relodata/6/34

The two main reasons for working up a load slowly are safety and accuracy. Start new loads low and work up looking for pressure signs at each stage. Compare the accuracy of each load, you will often find a sweet spot that gives you the best accuracy with a given bullet and powder.

I would consider a spread of "1.142 - 1.148" in over all length to be normal.

[deadarrow]

Use a lighter recoil spring. Tune the gun to work with the load. Why give up a soft shooting load when you can lighten the recoil spring. Wolf has various weight recoil springs. Get a few different ones and test them out.

[Sigfan220]

The benefits of working up a load is not having a slide in your face and your hands blown apart. You ALWAYS work up a load. Unless you really like the hospital. The gun would be very unlikely to blow due to a slightly hot round. You never know, tight bore, slightly oversized bullets, thicker cases, hot primers etc these can all add up and enough of them put together can spell disaster.

At 0.1gr over min I would agree that your gun may not fully cycle. I have had guns that need to be within 0.1gr of max to work well. Start low and work your way up. It comes down to personal preference and end use. If you need to meet a power factor them maybe you are too light. If you need the lightest load possible them maybe you need to swap out springs. In a 9mm the difference should be pretty minimal between min and max loads as far as recoil goes. So I would just work up till the gun runs fine then maybe add another 0.1gr to make sure it always cycles. But never go over max.

[kthnkl]

The benefits of working up a load is not having a slide in your face and your hands blown apart. You ALWAYS work up a load. Unless you really like the hospital. The gun would be very unlikely to blow due to a slightly hot round. You never know, tight bore, slightly oversized bullets, thicker cases, hot primers etc these can all add up and enough of them put together can spell disaster.

At 0.1gr over min I would agree that your gun may not fully cycle. I have had guns that need to be within 0.1gr of max to work well. Start low and work your way up. It comes down to personal preference and end use. If you need to meet a power factor them maybe you are too light. If you need the lightest load possible them maybe you need to swap out springs. In a 9mm the difference should be pretty minimal between min and max loads as far as recoil goes. So I would just work up till the gun runs fine then maybe add another 0.1gr to make sure it always cycles. But never go over max.

I loaded some at 5.4, randomly failed to lock the slide a few times.. also loaded some at 5.5 and with no failures of any sort. I will try 5.6 next per your advice and probably stop there if everything looks good. I don't need any specific power factor and I'm not necessarily looking for a light load I just want the gun to function, to be safe, and have fun.

THanks

[Sigfan220]

Based on the link above and using lead data vs jacketed, it looks like 5.4-5.9 is the range. You were using the jacked data(5.2 start), plated bullets are soft and most manufacturers recommend using lead data. You still need to work up, but generally they will need a little more powder than a similar bullet with a jacket. If you load any other calibers with a roll crimp you need to be careful not to over crimp. It's not so much an issue with taper crimps like in the 9mm.

If it were me I'd even try 5.7gr, that should still be plenty safe. But lets see how the 5.6's work first. Keep an eye on the primers and cases for signs of pressure.

[kthnkl]

Based on the link above and using lead data vs jacketed, it looks like 5.4-5.9 is the range. You were using the jacked data(5.2 start), plated bullets are soft and most manufacturers recommend using lead data. You still need to work up, but generally they will need a little more powder than a similar bullet with a jacket. If you load any other calibers with a roll crimp you need to be careful not to over crimp. It's not so much an issue with taper crimps like in the 9mm.

If it were me I'd even try 5.7gr, that should still be plenty safe. But lets see how the 5.6's work first. Keep an eye on the primers and cases for signs of pressure.

Thanks for the tips. I already made a handful at 5.6 and 5.7 to try out tomorrow. The supplier of my bullets suggested using jacketed load data, I was a bit confused that the plated bullet started at 5.4 and the FMJ at 5.2, which is why I started 5.3. It was amazing to me that at 5.3 the gun felt more like a .22 and by 5.5 it actually felt "normal" for a 9mm. I've been measuring the crimp on every single round to get a sense of the consistency the machine produces, they have all been .379-.380. I'm going to experiment with the 9mm for awhile but as my comfort increases so will my caliber conversions. I'm hoping to get into .223, and .40 by the end of the year.

[Snowgun]

Based on the link above and using lead data vs jacketed, it looks like 5.4-5.9 is the range. You were using the jacked data(5.2 start), plated bullets are soft and most manufacturers recommend using lead data. You still need to work up, but generally they will need a little more powder than a similar bullet with a jacket. If you load any other calibers with a roll crimp you need to be careful not to over crimp. It's not so much an issue with taper crimps like in the 9mm.

If it were me I'd even try 5.7gr, that should still be plenty safe. But lets see how the 5.6's work first. Keep an eye on the primers and cases for signs of pressure.

Thanks for the tips. I already made a handful at 5.6 and 5.7 to try out tomorrow. The supplier of my bullets suggested using jacketed load data, I was a bit confused that the plated bullet started at 5.4 and the FMJ at 5.2, which is why I started 5.3. It was amazing to me that at 5.3 the gun felt more like a .22 and by 5.5 it actually felt "normal" for a 9mm. I've been measuring the crimp on every single round to get a sense of the consistency the machine produces, they have all been .379-.380. I'm going to experiment with the 9mm for awhile but as my comfort increases so will my caliber conversions. I'm hoping to get into .223, and .40 by the end of the year.

Are you using a chrono on your loads?

Although if you are only playing at the bottom end of the charge range you don't technically need one, it is ALWAYS a good idea, if anything to get an idea what is actually happening and what your consistency is.

Just because you load a round soft doesn't mean it's better, sometimes you need a little velocity to stabilize it and make it shoot more accurately. A good guide is minor power factor as defined by the USPSA, which is ~125. (e.g., 124g bullet at 1025 fps divided by 1000 is ~127 PF)

Having a P30L myself, They are great, accurate guns, but are built for 9mm NATO. Therefore it is a good idea to try some different recoil springs if you are going to load soft rounds. It is also worth it to try a slightly lighter main spring (or cut a couple turns off an extra one) to get a slightly lighter trigger, you will really tell a difference shooting the gun.

[kthnkl]

Based on the link above and using lead data vs jacketed, it looks like 5.4-5.9 is the range. You were using the jacked data(5.2 start), plated bullets are soft and most manufacturers recommend using lead data. You still need to work up, but generally they will need a little more powder than a similar bullet with a jacket. If you load any other calibers with a roll crimp you need to be careful not to over crimp. It's not so much an issue with taper crimps like in the 9mm.

If it were me I'd even try 5.7gr, that should still be plenty safe. But lets see how the 5.6's work first. Keep an eye on the primers and cases for signs of pressure.

Thanks for the tips. I already made a handful at 5.6 and 5.7 to try out tomorrow. The supplier of my bullets suggested using jacketed load data, I was a bit confused that the plated bullet started at 5.4 and the FMJ at 5.2, which is why I started 5.3. It was amazing to me that at 5.3 the gun felt more like a .22 and by 5.5 it actually felt "normal" for a 9mm. I've been measuring the crimp on every single round to get a sense of the consistency the machine produces, they have all been .379-.380. I'm going to experiment with the 9mm for awhile but as my comfort increases so will my caliber conversions. I'm hoping to get into .223, and .40 by the end of the year.

Are you using a chrono on your loads?

Although if you are only playing at the bottom end of the charge range you don't technically need one, it is ALWAYS a good idea, if anything to get an idea what is actually happening and what your consistency is.

Just because you load a round soft doesn't mean it's better, sometimes you need a little velocity to stabilize it and make it shoot more accurately. A good guide is minor power factor as defined by the USPSA, which is ~125. (e.g., 124g bullet at 1025 fps divided by 1000 is ~127 PF)

Having a P30L myself, They are great, accurate guns, but are built for 9mm NATO. Therefore it is a good idea to try some different recoil springs if you are going to load soft rounds. It is also worth it to try a slightly lighter main spring (or cut a couple turns off an extra one) to get a slightly lighter trigger, you will really tell a difference shooting the gun.

Nope no chronograph but it is on my wish list which is getting pretty long.

The velocity stabilizing the projectile makes sense.. I don't really have any interest in having the softest shooting 9mm I was just being cautious not knowing what to expect. The data from Lapua I'm going off of lists the charge range from 5.4-6gr, 1136-1199 FPS which puts it at power factor of 141 assuming 1136 FPS. Very interesting.

My P30 is sort of a mutant.. It was originally the DA/SA variant but I converted it to the LEM setup. It's sprung like the factory "light lem" but it has the lighter hammer spring from the DA/SA (moot, being that there is no DA pull) and also the original sear so it still has a decocker.

[Seismic Sam]

Greetings all I posted awhile back while I was exploring the idea of reloading.. I finally set up a Dillon 650 and loaded my first rounds today.

Oh Lord and the Saints preserve us, but why is it always the n00b who doesn't RTFM who winds up buying a high end Dillon so they can make reloading mistakes 10 times faster and produce 10 times as much potentially sketchy ammo??

I'm also curious of the benefits of working the load up in general, what's the point?

Hoo boy!! Never seen anybody come right out and ask what the benefits of reloading are AFTER they have spent 6 - 8 bills to ALREADY do it!! I'm afraid you have posted the ultimate n00b question, which proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that you have NOT RTFM, because ALL of the reasons for handloading are explained in every good manual in plain English.

Trying to figure out a good load from a bad load by how it "feels" is a dumb assumption that I indulged in about 39 years ago myself, and in general hotter loads may actually feel like less recoil because the total time of recoil is reduced. With REALLY hot Smith 500 loads, it may feel like less recoil or power because the muzzle concussion is powerful enough to shut down your nervous system for a few hundredths of a second. Others have already diagnosed the slide not locking back, and unless you got a chrono, you really can't be a serious player in load development.

At least in this rare occasion, somebody else put up the possibility of winding up in the hospital instead of me!! Thank you for that, and I am extremely grateful!

[kthnkl]

I was kind of hoping you'd check in to slap me around a little bit.

Oh Lord and the Saints preserve us, but why is it always the n00b who doesn't RTFM who winds up buying a high end Dillon so they can make reloading mistakes 10 times faster and produce 10 times as much potentially sketchy ammo??

Lyman #49 was the worst thing I've ever read, it reminded me why I dropped out of high school and college twice. I actually did read most of it but I pretty much knew all I was going to know without some practical experience. My main concern was not blowing myself to bits which I have not done in the first 500 potentially sketchy cartridges. I will go back and use it as a reference as needed of course.

Hoo boy!! Never seen anybody come right out and ask what the benefits of reloading are AFTER they have spent 6 - 8 bills to ALREADY do it!! I'm afraid you have posted the ultimate n00b question, which proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that you have NOT RTFM, because ALL of the reasons for handloading are explained in every good manual in plain English.

6 - 8 bills? No sir, more like 14 bills so far, not counting any of the components. It would be nice if all I had to buy was the big metal blue thing. Obviously I know some of the benefits or I would not have been reading your posts and others for the better part of a year! It was a stupid question I'll admit. I did find the answer I was looking for though, bullets work best when there is a certain amount of fun dust behind them, and like you mentioned more powder may reduce perceived recoil, that makes sense but did not occur to me at the time. Thank you for clarifying!

Trying to figure out a good load from a bad load by how it "feels" is a dumb assumption that I indulged in about 39 years ago myself, and in general hotter loads may actually feel like less recoil because the total time of recoil is reduced. With REALLY hot Smith 500 loads, it may feel like less recoil or power because the muzzle concussion is powerful enough to shut down your nervous system for a few hundredths of a second. Others have already diagnosed the slide not locking back, and unless you got a chrono, you really can't be a serious player in load development.

At least in this rare occasion, somebody else put up the possibility of winding up in the hospital instead of me!! Thank you for that, and I am extremely grateful!

I agree with you on the chrono, I did overlook that initially.. it should have been here before I even set up the press. Are there any for sale locally, and can you make any recommendations on a certain type or brand? I am dying to know how fast these bullets are going............. I am happy with what I am using for now, it's pretty tame but goes bang every time and makes nice holes in paper. Recovered brass looks great and I am very meticulous when I make them... my high end dillon only netted me 131 rounds in two hours, but I did not make any mistakes for damn sure.

[sgruenhagen44]

Don't mind sam. He spends more time on here bitchin at people than he actually does reloading.

[OldmanFCSA]

Don't be so hard on Sam, he tries in his own way to keep all of us safe.

He deserves a 90 day vacation from all your sarcastic remarks - in memory of Sasha.
Take it out on me if you feel the need to bitch about something.
MurphyT. will protect you from me.

[Seismic Sam]

Don't be so hard on Sam, he tries in his own way to keep all of us safe.

He deserves a 90 day vacation from all your sarcastic remarks - in memory of Sasha.
Take it out on me if you feel the need to bitch about something.
MurphyT. will protect you from me.

You're a case late and 265 grains of powder short, Oldman!! The Sasha who is dying is my Sasha's older half sister!! (by two years.) She's been working for 10 years solid and is 12 years old. As soon as I heal up from this total knee, Sasha and I will pick up Gillette Children's in. St. Paul. While they have other therapy dogs, they admit that the other Sasha's departure has left a large gap in the depth and quality of their care for the Children, and in this rare instance lightning DID strike twice, so we can just pick up where the other Sasha left off and most people won't even notice.

But to get back to the point at hand, we truly have an incident here of unprecedented n00bishness here, and I had to go surfing the Dillon website to find out prices for a 650. Turns out Dillon has their act completetly together (as usual...) and lists $1127 as the average cost of a 650 system. Add a few cases, a couple hundred primers, and a pound of powder, and call it $1200 even. So we got a guy who has plunked down $1200 up front for a very nice system, has 5 whole posts to his name, and in the same breath as announcing that he has already started reloading and shooting his own ammo, asks the question: I'm also curious of the benefits of working the load up in general, what's the point????? So he wants US to tell HIM what the benefits are of rolling your own (they're endless, and most completely justifiable)) AFTER going out and blowing $1200 BEFOREHAND, and also asks essentially what the point of reloading is to begin with??

Well, I'm flat out stumped here, never seen anything like this, don't know what I could possibly say, and I doubt I will EVER have something to say, so I might as well STFU, hit the "Foe" button, and move on to something else. To sum it up in the words of Strother Martin: http://youtu.be/uitHYUbHgrs

[BigDog58]

I have a chrono and tripod you may borrow. The only rule I have is "You Shoot it You Bought it". PM me if you'd like to borrow my setup