Advice on working to a safe load for .50AE 400grain

[Swen]

Hello fellow gun folks,

First post outside the intro thread.

While I do have BigDog58 and qualcorp to help me out some here and will most likely be connecting with OldmanFCSA soon, I would still like to throw this out there to all and any who load .50AE or similar calibers.

I have tons of Winchester platinum tip 400 grain that I would like to load. I know it can be done but I have no load data for this bullet or weight and cannot find any online. Tyrone Umlauf whom owns Shooting Sports in Little Falls has some .50AE customers who shoot these 400 grains with great results and they have load data but he has been unable to get me any so far. Being I'm new to this game I'm not going to work a load when I have only data for 350 grain in a similar type of hollowpoint bullet, as my main concern starting out is safety.

I have my rcbs dies all setup on my lee classic 4 turret, de-primer/re-sizer--belling--and two taper seater/crimp dies one to seat and the second to crimp. I only ran two dummy rounds through(no primer or powder) to test out dies and do basic settings, no real clue what my OAL needs to be with this size of bullet or what amount of H110 I need to start with.

Just want to get overall advice whether detailed or not about the procedure to work a load without having the exact load info for this bullet and weight.

Winchester platinum tip 400 grain:
0.901 length 0.501 diameter

Starline Brass:
1.281 case length 0.539 outside base diameter 0.495 inside mouth diameter 0.522 outside mouth diameter

Two loaded rounds OAL is 1.587(not accounting for amount of powder I will need). Both rounds cycle through both my Mark XIX DE .50s well. The crimp made the outside mouth diameter on both rounds almost unnoticeably different, maybe .0005 smaller but I'm not sure if basic calipers is the best way to check proper crimp or if there even is a good way other than visual.

Thanks.

[BigDog58]

The biggest projectile weight I can locate a load for is a 380gr and it has the following loads

H-110 powder 27gr 1288fps. Min
H-110. 30gr 1365fps. Max

These are with a BRP SWC Bullet

These came from Loaddata.com and show best group at 1.5"

And has a note : "Do NOT use cast bullets in 50ae"

[Seismic Sam]

First thing is you're completely off base on the taper crimp. For a stiff 50AE load its FIVE FULL MILS!! 500 Smith is 7 mils. The best way to measure is pull the bullet and measure the crimp groove diameter left on the bullet. You want .495" diameter in the crimp groove.

BTW: How long you been loading 50AE, and how many other calibers you load?

As far as figuring out a load, closest data is Hornady #9, for the Smith 500, with 300, 350 and 500 grain bullets. Create an X-Y plot of bullet weight on the X axis versus the STARTING load for 296 powder on the Y axis for all 3 bullets. Then draw in a point at 400 grains to give you a calculated powder weight for that bullet.

After that, you have to scale the graph down proportionally for all the points so that the powder weight for the 300 grain bullet is 32.5 grains, which is the correct load for the 50AE with that bullet. You can then calculate how much less powder you will need for a 400 grain bullet. Reduce that by 10% and start working up loads, and keep track of the primer signs. If you start getting a mark on the case head from the cutout on the bolt face for the extractor, you are at the top end of the load. Attempting this without a chrono is probably not a good idea.

This is pretty straightforward math, so you should be able to do it.

[Swen]

The biggest projectile weight I can locate a load for is a 380gr and it has the following loads

H-110 powder 27gr 1288fps. Min
H-110. 30gr 1365fps. Max

These are with a BRP SWC Bullet

These came from Loaddata.com and show best group at 1.5"

And has a note : "Do NOT use cast bullets in 50ae"

Hey BigDog,

I did find load data for a 385 grain but it's unconfirmed and I'm not sure what bullet type it was. I actually just called shooting sports in little falls around noon today and the owner is out plowing snow but one of the employees there told me that 400 grain load data is in but I have to wait for Tyrone to get back later today to get it. So I will definitely post it here if he tells me I can.
As for the "cast" thing I was fearful that these 400 grains being plated would be a issue as I have no idea how hard plated they are but the employee I just talked with was the first guinea pig too shoot the 400 grains out of the eagle for the owner and the few who use this load now and it works flawlessly with the barrel rifling and so on. Out of the numerous grains they shoot the 400, according to them, is thee most accurate of them all. We wil see.

[Swen]

First thing is you're completely off base on the taper crimp. For a stiff 50AE load its FIVE FULL MILS!! 500 Smith is 7 mils. The best way to measure is pull the bullet and measure the crimp groove diameter left on the bullet. You want .495" diameter in the crimp groove.

BTW: How long you been loading 50AE, and how many other calibers you load?

As far as figuring out a load, closest data is Hornady #9, for the Smith 500, with 300, 350 and 500 grain bullets. Create an X-Y plot of bullet weight on the X axis versus the STARTING load for 296 powder on the Y axis for all 3 bullets. Then draw in a point at 400 grains to give you a calculated powder weight for that bullet.

After that, you have to scale the graph down proportionally for all the points so that the powder weight for the 300 grain bullet is 32.5 grains, which is the correct load for the 50AE with that bullet. You can then calculate how much less powder you will need for a 400 grain bullet. Reduce that by 10% and start working up loads, and keep track of the primer signs. If you start getting a mark on the case head from the cutout on the bolt face for the extractor, you are at the top end of the load. Attempting this without a chrono is probably not a good idea.

This is pretty straightforward math, so you should be able to do it.

Thank you for that crimp info. I had 10mm or something on my brain and was thinking light crimp but it's just the opposite I guess. OK. Will definitely pull bullets and measure that way to set up die right.

I have yet to reload a single round, I'm a newbie. I'm only starting with .50AE because I have everything for it in large quantities, 10mm as well. I plan to mostly reload .223 and the only items I'm waiting on for those is powder and brass. The two rounds in pic are just dummys.

Thanks for the formula, even though I will have the exact load data for the 400 grain .50AE later today from a few shooters who exclusively shoot it, I do want to learn the how. Have a chrono and thanks for that extractor mark tip for nearing top load.

Will post back.

[BigDog58]

Swen, if you are using plated bullets be careful. Watch your velocity. Most single plated I'm aware of have a velocity limit of 1250fps. Some double plated go up to 1450fps but unless you know they are truly double played I suggest you keep it under the 1250fps. Call me if you need any help. I should be home in the evenings

[Seismic Sam]

One other very important thing: While starting reloading with 50AE is kind of unusual, it has several blessings. You can't double charge a case, and the 50 DE is damn near indestructible. yes, you could blow it up easily with Bullseye if you grabbed that canister by mistake, but with 296/H110, which is all that's used, you wrist will give out with 400 grain loads before the gun will.

This is NOT the case with the 10mm, and you better have all your EFFEN (just got back from the Gopher - BURP! ) ducks in a row with that cartridge. Frankly, I would go see Oldman for reloading training sooner rather than later, because with Blue Dot in a 10mm just .3 grains over some max loads will get you to the edge of the cases and gun blowing up!!

[Swen]

Swen, if you are using plated bullets be careful. Watch your velocity. Most single plated I'm aware of have a velocity limit of 1250fps. Some double plated go up to 1450fps but unless you know they are truly double played I suggest you keep it under the 1250fps. Call me if you need any help. I should be home in the evenings

Just got load data for the 400 grain.

The bullet itself is jacketed with a 2-core hollowpoint and can handle velocities of up to 2,000 fps. So I'm good. lol Not sure what type of plating if any it has but these are meant to be shot in the .500mag so I see no velocity limit issues especially at 400 weight. Owner of gun shop has put 300 rounds through a few eagle's with no negatives, not even case issues, and more accurate than any load he has ever shot for it so all sounds good. Apparently many more are joining the 400 grain club as his orders for this bullet have jumped a lot since last year among DE shooters.

Min. 22.5 --- Max. 24.5 H110

[Swen]

One other very important thing: While starting reloading with 50AE is kind of unusual, it has several blessings. You can't double charge a case, and the 50 DE is damn near indestructible. yes, you could blow it up easily with Bullseye if you grabbed that canister by mistake, but with 296/H110, which is all that's used, you wrist will give out with 400 grain loads before the gun will.

This is NOT the case with the 10mm, and you better have all your EFFEN (just got back from the Gopher - BURP! ) ducks in a row with that cartridge. Frankly, I would go see Oldman for reloading training sooner rather than later, because with Blue Dot in a 10mm just .3 grains over some max loads will get you to the edge of the cases and gun blowing up!!

Ya I don't plan on doing any reloading until I have gone over everything a dozen times. The light crimp thing was for another reloader on another caliber I can't remember which but it doesn't apply to me as I will be crimping by the book and not by word of mouth. But much online info for .50ae crimping is between .001-.002 from original case mouth measurement. Not saying it's right but what's available online is saying a weak crimp. I forget to ask about crimp when talking to guy that just gave me load data.
But if you are telling me five full I'll do five full mils especially with such a heavy bullet.
I shot up about 300 rounds of 500 grain XTP in my old S&W .500mag in a single weekend with little help, my wrist is good to go.
Wish I had some blue dot to worry about that small deviation. Not loading 10mm anytime soon. Thanks.

[67camaro]

That 24.5 of H110 seems about right at max considering heaviest 454 casull loads with 405gr bullets are at ~24ish of H110. The 454 and 50AE have similar case capacities. One thing to remember with using H110 or 296 is to not use for reduced loads. Those powders have tendencies to have pressure spike issues if reduced too much. So like you said if you have a guy that has used those same bullets and powder combination and is trustworthy, start low and watch your primers. Using LPP over the SRP in the 454 you should be able to see flattening fairly easily and at that point back er' off a bit. With H110 start low (but not too low) and work up as you should do with every cartridge.

ETA: Make sure and get a COAL from that guy to, as seating depth can affect pressures also.

[qualcorp]

So what is the most favorite powder the DE50 likes to snack on anyway? I have only used Alliant 2400, with and without mag primers. Although violent the gun is still together as god intended.

[Rodentman]

I have successfully used:

28.0g 2400
25.0g AA#9
34.0g H110

All with 300 Speer 4493 and 300 IMI JHP bullets.

[Seismic Sam]

So what is the most favorite powder the DE50 likes to snack on anyway? I have only used Alliant 2400, with and without mag primers. Although violent the gun is still together as god intended.

H110/296 No reason to look anywhere else. For a 325 grain JHP, oddly enough the recommended max load is 32.5 grains, and that's the load you run day in and day out. Quite frankly, the 50 AE in a Desert Eagle doesn't have much to offer the handloader except HUGE savings in ammo price and also availability. No point to mess with the 32.5 load at all. I will admit that some of the Samson factory loads are clearly hotter, to the point that you get a very clear extractor mark, but what's the point? I got to the point that I could shoot 100 rounds per range visit one handed with my DE, which was no mean feat, and stay on the target even rapid fire. Never felt the need to try and dick around with hotter loads, like I have done with the 9x23 and 9x25.

In this sense, the DE is pretty muck like the Coonan, and it's meant to digest full power loads all the time, and that's about it.

[qualcorp]

Thanks Sam-next time I go to the market I will pick me up a Jug' of the H110/296

[Dutch]

FWIW: 34.0gr H110 chrono'ed 1400fps with the Rainier plated 300gr flatnose projectiles in my DE50AE.