585HE-12ga From Hell Guy

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Re: 585HE-12ga From Hell Guy

Postby Rip Van Winkle on Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:42 pm

So what's up with these posts? If he doesn't reply or have a website, is he trying to market these guns or what?
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Re: 585HE-12ga From Hell Guy

Postby Greg on Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:01 am

crbutler wrote:Oh come on...

It is about ammo and guns. You don't have to read it... I can't see a bannable offense here.


The one way communication is a bit annoying but hardly a banning offense!

If you don't want to read it, don't. Meanwhile we might learn something.

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Re: 585HE-12ga From Hell Guy

Postby hubel585 on Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:56 am

I'm working on a site that I will get changed to cover this project in a few months.
I post this and the 12ga From Hell research, much of it others work, on a hundred
forums for information and it is our hobby. Some threads been going for many years.
No money to be made just many thousands in debt.

Our 585 caliber is modern bolt action continuance of the 577 Nitro
Express rimmed case, that many big game hunters like. Usually
set up in double rifles. It has an interesting history, from the old 24ga
size to 577NE, to the 585 Nyati with the picture of Ross Seyfreid
shooting one in a Ruger #1 under recoil knocking his shooting glasses
off, to the Trex of internet fame knocking guys over,
to our 585HE the strongest yet.

The 577NE is an offshoot of the 24 gauge caliber, only they went
eventially to brass cases. Back in the 1860-70s, starting first with short
cases and black powder, cases were built like shotgun cases, called the
577 Snider, then going to coiled brass cases, still with black powder,
then on to drawn brass cases, then called 577 BP Express, then
to 3" cases with smokeless. The Snider started out with a bullet of
.570" diameter and through the progression to the 577NE bullet
diameter ended up at .585". This bore diameter of cartridge guns
and muzzle loaders it is real interesting on how they developed
and were used by military and then hunters over the years. The Snider
was necked down to make the 577-450 , a military round used all
over the British Empire, by the tens of millions.

Bases of both 24ga and 577NE are about the same. Now we have a
24ga FH, a regression to earlier times, by taking 577NE brass, and
reducing rim diameter to 24ga specs. Two minute job. And
stamp the cases 24 ga.

For shotgun upgrading in power and range, It is all about increasing
the power in easy to find brass cases, stronger actions, and finding
reasonable rifled barrels. Same barrels we found for 585, same for 24ga.
The 577NE brass we make 24ga drawn cases from, for example are
a third the cost of 600NE brass, or getting turned case made.

Info about the power in types of guns normally set up with 24ga FH,
break actions, bolt shotguns,etc. In thin brass 24ga case, 440gr slug
goes 1500, with about 2000 ft lbs, that's in a 2.5" Magtech brass case.
Now using the better, heavier 3" brass we got, we can increase speed
to 1750 fps increasing energy 50%, going to 2000 fps about doubles
energy. And going to 2300 which good brass holds ok, in heavy barrel
gun, gets us near 2 1/2 times the energy. About 37-40,000 psi which
actions hold in this smaller diameter case, compared to 12 gauge size.
So makes relatively smaller bore shotgun. 24ga, with 458WIN power.
.Perfect with Minie bullets. Perfect for deer and hogs, bear, etc.

Great for slug hunting in shotgun only areas. We mark barrels 24ga
and cases 24. A decent case that is complimentary to our 585HE....Ed
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Re: 585HE-12ga From Hell Guy

Postby Tronster on Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:12 am

I think my collar bone fractured and rotator cuff tore while skimming over that!
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Re: 585HE-12ga From Hell Guy

Postby hubel585 on Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:32 am

Here is picture of 585HE 100 cases a guy got loaded loaded,
They are CEB solid nose bullets, and hollowpoints.
This bullet is turned solid with wide meplat or wide hollowpoint. .

Image

Here is break action being set up for the 24ga FH. It is done by mono-blocking
in a .585"/24ga barrel. With the 3" 24ga brass case running 35,000 psi,
a moderate load, with 440gr minie, it gets about same power
as some loads in the 458Win. Ed

Image
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Re: 585HE-12ga From Hell Guy

Postby hubel585 on Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:17 pm

Here is a different look at 585-458 sabots holding 458cal bullets.
It holds lead as well as jacketed.

Image

Here is a long turned streamlined bullet in our 585.

Image

I do like Enfields to put our 585 in, and one of the reasons is
they have bigger bolt lugs than most, by bigger they have more
cross section where the lug is on the bolt body. And the left lug
is longer forward so as to support the case, after the bolt face is
opened for the bigger case, as the extractor
pushes the case to the left.

Image


Anyone wanting to import barrels, actions, cases, etc into Canada from
here can work through Prophet River Firearms in Lloydminster, AB.

The here being the US, and with our group here, also having
barrels, dies, cases, and McGowen with barrels in stock,
CH4D with 585HE dies in stock, shops with # 31 shellholders.
And later a few retail outlets setup with cases in stock...Ed .
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Re: 585HE-12ga From Hell Guy

Postby hubel585 on Sat Dec 13, 2014 10:45 pm

Another application for our 585 HE is for guys with the 14.5mm
PTRDs, to use our case with chamber insert. In many places 14.5
cases are scarce, real expensive, as well as most 14.5mm cases
being steel are not the easiest to resize/reload. Our case sizes
like regular cases and can be easily reloaded many times.

And in a PTRD with almost a 5 foot long barrel can get 650gr
spitzer bullet to the same speed the 14.5mm gets a 900 gr using
3 times as much powder. 3300 fps. Or get a 900gr at 2800.
Great possibilities for fun shooting. And tactical use in a place
where it would be useful to reload in the operations field, where
steel cases are scarce. A 100 cases do over 2000 reloads.

Image

I like Enfields to put our 585HEs in, for reasonable cost guns. .
Here is inexpensive way to fancy up the Enfield Bolt handle by
cutting the dogleg part of the old handle off and welding on
inexpensive contoured handles I found, one of which is like
Ruger 77 handle, one on the right . Something even a novice
like me can do.....

Image

A lot of guys are crazy about CEB bullets. Here are light 450gr
ones in our 24ga FH. The hollowpoint can range in weight 450gr
to 700gr.. The 24ga FH is nice complement to our
585HE for the shotgun only deer hunters... Ed

Image
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Re: 585HE-12ga From Hell Guy

Postby hubel585 on Wed Dec 31, 2014 3:50 am

For lightweight plinking, deer hunting, etc, in 585HE as well as 24ga FH
here is picture of 58cal Hornady sabot that holds .451/.452" light
bullets 225 to 300 gr. A way to shoot targets economically. Low recoil
but a big bang and satisfaction. That sabot is one made for ML, but
with .452" bullet in it is a real tight fit in brass cases, to stay
in place and give good ignition. A 250 gr bullet would go about
mach 4 with a top load..

Image

Here is what 585 bull barrel, target blank looks like, 1 5/8" OD and 32" long.
It'll go in heavy action of some kind. 4th one from the left. The one in yellow
sleave on top, is a heavy contoured one with muzzle of .980" ..The 5th, 6th,
7th blanks on bottom are straight 1.375" 585 regular twist blanks.
One in paper wrapper is slow twist 585 barrel...Ed

Image
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Re: 585HE-12ga From Hell Guy

Postby OldmanFCSA on Wed Dec 31, 2014 6:41 am

My 50BMG target barrel blanks are 1.875" in diameter, 35" long, with a 1:15 twist rate for best performance in 750-825 grain weight range projectiles.
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Re: 585HE-12ga From Hell Guy

Postby hubel585 on Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:43 pm

Here is picture, nice cast bullet I like for the 585HE and 24ga FH.
It is .585" diameter and 650 gr and these particular ones are a
hard lead alloy, plus they've been heatreated. They are about as
hard as copper jacketed softs. These have a flat base, and
fairly streamlined..

Image

But to penetrate good and do great damage to game or target they
can be soft lead and hollowbase like Minie Bullets. Here is picture
of timber drilled through with .585 soft lead Minie from 585HE.
Picture is the back of 6x6 timbers where Minie bullets came out. Ed

Image
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Re: 585HE-12ga From Hell Guy

Postby hubel585 on Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:13 pm

In Canada there are 3 guys there now setting up 585HEs,
and one setting up 24ga FH. Another friend setting up a 585HE
handed out a bunch of cases and info sheets at the SCI convention.
We are getting some more reamers made. Some more dies sent
here. Another pallet load of cases coming.

Here is picture of a light spitzer bullet in the 24ga FH case,
will work in 585 also. Good for hunting and medium range
target work.

Image

Here is picture of 585HE we did in the FBW with regular two
piece stock.We put a tenon on the forearm to wedge into the
front of the action below the barrel and a tight barrel band
on the front. Ed

Image
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Re: 585HE-12ga From Hell Guy

Postby hubel585 on Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:26 pm

Here is comparison of our 585HE and Trex case, and while
we have barrels of cases and more coming and many available
in stock in AUS, many are finding Trex cases scarce...

Image

Here is picture of a neat falling block that could work for our
585HE with little work, the Wickcliff.


Image

Here is picture of the singlestack mag box we built for Enfields
fitted to the bottom of BBK action.Very little changing and
it fits a lot of different actions, as a fixed magazine, with its
own feed lips,and we load from the top.Ed

Image
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585HE-12ga From Hell Guy

Postby Ron Burgundy on Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:42 pm

So does this guy have to manually copy/paste into forums or is there some fancy bot that can handle this sort of thing?


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Re: 585HE-12ga From Hell Guy

Postby hubel585 on Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:46 pm

I just paste, only way a non-typing klutz like me can get message
and our experimental info around. It is maybe worth a minute's
worth of time to read it every few weeks..

Here is picture of a 585HE we did in a Mauser 98 as a
singleshot test gun. We used a composite stock we
adapted to fit action. Weighted to 12 lbs.

Image

And speaking of singleshots a fellow in the Yukon is
just finishing up one in a Ruger #1.

Here is one reason to like 585 calibers is bullet varieties,
this picture is only about half the bullets and slugs
we know of, and most can easily found. Ed

Image
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Re: 585HE-12ga From Hell Guy

Postby OldmanFCSA on Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:14 am

How much actual interest do you have in this cartridge outside of your own desires ???
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