FBI study says 9mm is best

View · by **brent fox** on Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:09 pm

Looks like a lot of the same reasons some of us have given to support 9mm.

http://www.grandviewoutdoors.com/articl ... RAE1J.dpbs

View · by **Ironbear** on Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:37 pm

Article says "premium" ammo... makes sense.

“There is little to no noticeable difference in the wound tracks between premium line law Auto enforcement projectiles from 9mm Luger through the .45 Auto.” - See more at: http://www.grandviewoutdoors.com/articl ... SB1wo.dpuf

Doesn't say a thing about ball ammo...

Which doesn't stop anyone from commenting...

Look to the military. Our elite units went back to the venerable 45 a long time ago.

uhnn... ball ammo anyone?

Of course, no shortage of... ahh.. stuff... out there!

The normal bullet weight of a .45 ACP is 210gr. The normal weight of a 9mm is 110gr. They can both be purchased with the same hollow point construction. So, which one is going to produce the most damage??? If you think there is negligible difference, you are sadly mistaken. Try hitting your thumb with a 4 oz hammer and then a 4 pound hammer. Which one is going to hurt the most?

I'm guessing the 4lb hammer beats the .45 ACP for real "knock down" power! :twisted:

View · by **Rip Van Winkle** on Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:54 pm

So the FBI has a new study which contradicts their last study and will most certainly contradict their next study. :roll:

Not a big surprise.

View · by **gun_fan111** on Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:30 pm

Get ready for a big fire sale of all things 45 ACP... Not

View · by **aht_six** on Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:18 pm

View · by **brent fox** on Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:46 pm

I kinda figured this would start something 8-)

View · by **MaryB** on Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:06 pm

Reading that they based t on not just penetration but availability, recoil, number of rounds carried... I could see it winning based on all the factors.

View · by **Scratch** on Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:14 pm

Isn't it about time for another AK vs AR thread too?
:roll:

View · by **Bearcatrp** on Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:44 am

Sounds like the 9MM manufacturers paid off the FBI to conclude the 9MM is better to promote sales. I will stick with my 40 S&W.

View · by **Rip Van Winkle** on Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:17 am

Bearcatrp wrote:Sounds like the 9MM manufacturers paid off the FBI to conclude the 9MM is better to promote sales. I will stick with my 40 S&W.

I suspect it has more to do with the FBI wanting a new pistol and justifying it with a new study.

View · by **igofast** on Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:19 am

While the article certainly states that '9mm is best' I don't think that's the conclusion I would come to. What I'm seeing is there is no reason to move to a larger caliber as long as the 9 is shooting 'premium' ammo.

You really need to hit the original article(linked in the link): http://soldiersystems.net/2014/09/25/fbi-9mm-justification-fbi-training-division/

The thing that gets me is the FBI put out it's criteria for ballistics performance, and then all major calibers are able to make that performance. That's not to say a .40(or something else) couldn't perform better - but manufacturers are given a set of criteria to conform to, so they do. Then the FBI goes out and say's 'well, everything basically performs the same, sooo...' Well, yeah, cause that's what you asked them to.

Additionally, they say that the wound cavity is indistinguishable to the Medical Examiner or OR Surgeon between .35 and .45 - which I believe. But that's not 'premium' ammo. I'll bet they could tell between .7 and .9

Certainly great to have so many options available.

View · by **TTS** on Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:49 am

igofast wrote:While the article certainly states that '9mm is best' I don't think that's the conclusion I would come to. What I'm seeing is there is no reason to move to a larger caliber as long as the 9 is shooting 'premium' ammo.

You really need to hit the original article(linked in the link): http://soldiersystems.net/2014/09/25/fbi-9mm-justification-fbi-training-division/

The thing that gets me is the FBI put out it's criteria for ballistics performance, and then all major calibers are able to make that performance. That's not to say a .40(or something else) couldn't perform better - but manufacturers are given a set of criteria to conform to, so they do. Then the FBI goes out and say's 'well, everything basically performs the same, sooo...' Well, yeah, cause that's what you asked them to.

Additionally, they say that the wound cavity is indistinguishable to the Medical Examiner or OR Surgeon between .35 and .45 - which I believe. But that's not 'premium' ammo. I'll bet they could tell between .7 and .9

Certainly great to have so many options available.

As per the original article,

There is little to no noticeable difference in the wound tracks between premium line law Auto enforcement projectiles from 9mm Luger through the .45 Auto

http://looserounds.com/2014/09/21/fbi-9mm-justification-fbi-training-division/

I think we should all note that the actual .pdf of the Training Divisions report has not been made available.

View · by **Seismic Sam** on Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:59 am

Well, might as well jump into the hog pit with my bucket of fertilizer and join the fun. In GawdawfulAsscrackistan the 9mm was found slightly lacking in making the bad guys stop rather than keep coming forward, while those with 45's were able to stop them just like a .45 normally does. I suppose it didn't help that the Beretta is an ungodly big chunk of metal to be dispensing little 9mm bullets.

View · by **Ron Burgundy** on Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:07 am

They should make all .45s single shots since all it takes.

View · by JJ on Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:26 am

Seismic Sam wrote:Well, might as well jump into the hog pit with my bucket of fertilizer and join the fun. In GawdawfulAsscrackistan the 9mm was found slightly lacking in making the bad guys stop rather than keep coming forward, while those with 45's were able to stop them just like a .45 normally does. I suppose it didn't help that the Beretta is an ungodly big chunk of metal to be dispensing little 9mm bullets.

Oranges vs tangerines.

The deficiency of 9mm in military small arms is directly related to ball ammo.

This study is about Premium ammo.