Confused? Yes, yes, I am!

[John S.]

Okay, I have a Lee 2nd ed and a Speer #14. The Lee has data for 125 gr .357 XTP and of course the Speer just has Speer bullets. What is confusing?

Well, the Lee says,v-N110 starting @ 16.8 compressed and never exceed 18.4gr compressed for 125gr XTP. Nothing is said about using mag primers or not!

Speer says using 125gr speer lead, v-N110 min 16.8gr max 17.8gr, and doesn't say to use magnum primers.

The Speer manual, doesn't say anything about compressed load. So? I have a lot of magnum primers, and a pound of v-N110 powder. I want to load some fairly hot loads for the Coonan, should I buy some Speer bullets? Reg pistol primers, or, does anybody have any data for Hornady XTP 125gr .357 mag, v-N110, with mag primers? Just when I felt fairly comfortable reloading for 45-70 govt. They throw this crap at me! One website said using H110 or W296,(i know H&N110 are totally different), it would be close to impossible to blow the gun up, but, I don't even know what say about THAT! Anyway can't find H110 so, I'm stuck with N110, but to magnum prim or not? AND compressing the powder with XTP, but, not Speer bullets has me more confused than ever. I guess it's time to buy some Buffalo Bore .357 mag and be done.

I guess I'll use this:
http://www.vihtavuori.com/en/reloading- ... gnum-.html

[Rodentman]

I don't worry about bullet brand. JHP, JSP, regardless of mfr is jacketed and I use data for jacketed. Lead is different. Seat to the cannelure and crimp. You can work up a load using mag primers; I've seen manuals say mag with a certain powder yet another book will not say mag with the same powder.

Personally I don't have experience with compressed loads. I manage to find a load that isn't compressed. I have still yet to try compressed .357sig loads with AA#9 but that's on my list.

[jags]

It might be close to impossible to blow up a Coonan but it is possible. I got one early spring 2014. Put 50 rds. of Federal ammunition through it. Cleaned the gun. About 3wks. later took it out again. I ran 2 dry cleaning patches through the barrel. Checked to make sure nothing in barrel loaded gun, pulled trigger an KABOOM! Spit the barrel in 2 length wise, blew the extractor out. Destroyed the pistol. Blazer Brass Case FACTORY AMMUNITION. I am a reloader but was following the instructions in the owners manual. I thought I would run 200 rds. of factory ammo for the break in. You talk about a sick feeling after having something like that happen. I was by myself at my girlfriend's house when it happened. If she would have been home it could have gotten real ugly. She would have been outside with me. Might have taken a piece of shrapnel. I didn't get hurt, but it SUCKED. I called Coonan and sent the pistol in. It took about 3 months but they did replace the pistol. Be careful, you really DO NOT want to experience that.

[John S.]

OK. It says in Lee # 14 that 16.8 c for compressed, but if I look at the link to VH powder it only has the never exeed amount show as full, so I'm lost? I'm just going to buy factory ammo. Tried AE Federal. Going to order some Buffalo Bore, and try Mag-tech, too. Sorry to here what happened to your barrel, wonder if it was a bad (not naughty), piece of steel? I hope thats all. I have yet to throw 50 rnd down lane!

Where I found the post about not being able to blow up your gun with H110/W296, was on a S & W forum, I think, or "The Fireing Line. But, I'm pretty sure he was talking about Revolvers, not a Coonan.

[Rodentman]

I would be leery of posts saying it's impossible to blow up a gun...I believe it is possible to blow up any gun. Even with factory ammo. Maybe not likely, but possible.

[MnHornet]

I like Hogden Lil-Gun for 357 My Coonan runs great with 14 grains over 158 grain jacketed bullet. I have never used magnum primers.
Powder manufacturer web sites are a good source for the most up to date load data.
Lil-Gun is a pretty forgiving powder.

[John S.]

I would be leery of posts saying it's impossible to blow up a gun...I believe it is possible to blow up any gun. Even with factory ammo. Maybe not likely, but possible.

I agree! Matter of fct same dude said throw away your manuals.................???????????????????????

It's impossibler. Well, maybe because the case only holds so much powder , but, if packed down, you enter a whole new world, I'd guess!

[John S.]

I like Hogden Lil-Gun for 357 My Coonan runs great with 14 grains over 158 grain jacketed bullet. I have never used magnum primers.
Powder manufacturer web sites are a good source for the most up to date load data.
Lil-Gun is a pretty forgiving powder.

Thanks, Ima try it! AFTER, 200 round factory break in, hopefully not BREAK!

[Mauser98]

Okay, I have a Lee 2nd ed and a Speer #14. The Lee has data for 125 gr .357 XTP and of course the Speer just has Speer bullets. What is confusing?

Well, the Lee says,v-N110 starting @ 16.8 compressed and never exceed 18.4gr compressed for 125gr XTP. Nothing is said about using mag primers or not!

Speer says using 125gr speer lead, v-N110 min 16.8gr max 17.8gr, and doesn't say to use magnum primers.

The Speer manual, doesn't say anything about compressed load. So? I have a lot of magnum primers, and a pound of v-N110 powder. I want to load some fairly hot loads for the Coonan, should I buy some Speer bullets? Reg pistol primers, or, does anybody have any data for Hornady XTP 125gr .357 mag, v-N110, with mag primers? Just when I felt fairly comfortable reloading for 45-70 govt. They throw this crap at me! One website said using H110 or W296,(i know H&N110 are totally different), it would be close to impossible to blow the gun up, but, I don't even know what say about THAT! Anyway can't find H110 so, I'm stuck with N110, but to magnum prim or not? AND compressing the powder with XTP, but, not Speer bullets has me more confused than ever. I guess it's time to buy some Buffalo Bore .357 mag and be done.

I guess I'll use this:
http://www.vihtavuori.com/en/reloading- ... gnum-.html

Different bullet lengths between the XTP and the Speer lead. The COL may be the same, but being the XTP is longer, it will be seated deeper into the case, due to the bullet length being longer. Seating deeper is causing the compressed powder in your comparison.

N110 is a nice burning powder, and is not stuborn to light off like H110/W296. Thus most loads are usually listed with standard SP primers. As long as you do your load work-up starting at the beginning charge weight, you'll be just fine using magnum primers. You may encounter high pressure signs before reaching the book max load using magnum primers, so inspect your spent cases thoroughly.

Hornady 8th lists their v-H110 loads with magnum primers and 125 gr XTP's, starting at 13.3 gr, and max of 16.1 gr. COL = 1.590. NO mention of compressed load there, but it's under the Lee starting load. My N110 loads for my Coonan are compressed, and well into the Lee data, using magnum primers.

When using jacketed bullets in 357 mag and a compressed powder charge, I no longer bell the case mouth when I expand the cases. I've gone to chamfering the mouth, and with jacketed bullets, this is all I've needed to get the bullet seated. This gives me enough neck tension to hold the bullet after seating/compressing the powder, and getting the roll crimp applied. Don't wait too long between seating and crimping, as the powder is acting upon the bullet base to try and push the bullet out.

[John S.]

Okay, I have a Lee 2nd ed and a Speer #14. The Lee has data for 125 gr .357 XTP and of course the Speer just has Speer bullets. What is confusing?

Well, the Lee says,v-N110 starting @ 16.8 compressed and never exceed 18.4gr compressed for 125gr XTP. Nothing is said about using mag primers or not!

Speer says using 125gr speer lead, v-N110 min 16.8gr max 17.8gr, and doesn't say to use magnum primers.

The Speer manual, doesn't say anything about compressed load. So? I have a lot of magnum primers, and a pound of v-N110 powder. I want to load some fairly hot loads for the Coonan, should I buy some Speer bullets? Reg pistol primers, or, does anybody have any data for Hornady XTP 125gr .357 mag, v-N110, with mag primers? Just when I felt fairly comfortable reloading for 45-70 govt. They throw this crap at me! One website said using H110 or W296,(i know H&N110 are totally different), it would be close to impossible to blow the gun up, but, I don't even know what say about THAT! Anyway can't find H110 so, I'm stuck with N110, but to magnum prim or not? AND compressing the powder with XTP, but, not Speer bullets has me more confused than ever. I guess it's time to buy some Buffalo Bore .357 mag and be done.

I guess I'll use this:
http://www.vihtavuori.com/en/reloading- ... gnum-.html

Different bullet lengths between the XTP and the Speer lead. The COL may be the same, but being the XTP is longer, it will be seated deeper into the case, due to the bullet length being longer. Seating deeper is causing the compressed powder in your comparison.

N110 is a nice burning powder, and is not stuborn to light off like H110/W296. Thus most loads are usually listed with standard SP primers. As long as you do your load work-up starting at the beginning charge weight, you'll be just fine using magnum primers. You may encounter high pressure signs before reaching the book max load using magnum primers, so inspect your spent cases thoroughly.

Hornady 8th lists their v-H110 loads with magnum primers and 125 gr XTP's, starting at 13.3 gr, and max of 16.1 gr. COL = 1.590. NO mention of compressed load there, but it's under the Lee starting load. My N110 loads for my Coonan are compressed, and well into the Lee data, using magnum primers.

When using jacketed bullets in 357 mag and a compressed powder charge, I no longer bell the case mouth when I expand the cases. I've gone to chamfering the mouth, and with jacketed bullets, this is all I've needed to get the bullet seated. This gives me enough neck tension to hold the bullet after seating/compressing the powder, and getting the roll crimp applied. Don't wait too long between seating and crimping, as the powder is acting upon the bullet base to try and push the bullet out.

Thanks, that's kinda what I thought, the XTP being longer. I might just buy some Speer boolits next time I go to Ahlmans, or Cabella's Don't quite like the compressed ID.

[Seismic Sam]

The Lee manual has some major shortcomings, not the least of which is that it lists tons of bullets for every caliber, but it just identifies them by weight and shape. It DOES not tell you the legth of the bullet or the manufacturer!! It has a min OAL listed, but that information is useless if you don't know what bullet you are using. As an example, pick two 158 grain bullets for 357 mag loads which may have different length, and yet it just shows you ONE OAL. Well, that's just EFFEN great, because with the same OAL and two different length bullets, that means the internal space in the two loads will be DIFFERENT, and thus the pressures will be different. That's an open invitation to get into big trouble, so I NEVER rely on Lee data for actual loads. Only use a manual where the length of the bullet is shown, and there are at least MIN OAL's, and both MIN and MAX OAL's are better. Trying to reconcile that incomplete Lee data with any other quality load manual is a waste of time.

[John S.]

SS thank you. I thought WTF? The same holds true with reloading data for Hrnady, vs, Hodgdon. You say, WTF? Do not exceed and starting loads aint even close!

[noylj]

1) COL is dependent on your gun and not to be found in a manual. The manual COL should be considered no more than the minimum COL the data applies to. The bullet is only one variable for determining the COL and no manual reports their COL as optimum.
2) Compressed is not bad or a concern.
3) I always check at least two independent sources and start with the lowest starting load and the longest COL that feeds and functions in my gun(s).
4) If you go from a standard to magnum primer, generally the recommendation has been to drop the charge weight 2% and work the load back up.
5) You will be hard pressed to ever find two manuals that agree on starting or max loads, as they all use their own guns and their own lot number of components. When you change a component, or lot number of powder, you again should, for safety, lower the charge weight and re-work the load. Remember, no two lot numbers of components are exactly the same and that is even more true for a change in the component brand itself.
6) Starting loads are NOT minimum loads. They are almost always a 10-12% drop from the max load. Some manuals select a start load so they all start at the same velocity or pressure, but they are NOT minimums.
7) In over 40 years of reloading, i have never measured a bullet length and see no reason to. As long as I remember to always determine the best COL for each bullet before I start to load and always start with the starting load, I have not had any issues.

[noylj]

1) COL is dependent on your gun and not to be found in a manual. The manual COL should be considered no more than the minimum COL the data applies to. The bullet is only one variable for determining the COL and no manual reports their COL as optimum.
2) Compressed is not bad or a concern.
3) I always check at least two independent sources and start with the lowest starting load and the longest COL that feeds and functions in my gun(s).
4) If you go from a standard to magnum primer, generally the recommendation has been to drop the charge weight 2% and work the load back up.
5) You will be hard pressed to ever find two manuals that agree on starting or max loads, as they all use their own guns and their own lot number of components. When you change a component, or lot number of powder, you again should, for safety, lower the charge weight and re-work the load. Remember, no two lot numbers of components are exactly the same and that is even more true for a change in the component brand itself.
6) Starting loads are NOT minimum loads. They are almost always a 10-12% drop from the max load. Some manuals select a start load so they all start at the same velocity or pressure, but they are NOT minimums.
7) In over 40 years of reloading, i have never measured a bullet length and see no reason to. As long as I remember to always determine the best COL for each bullet before I start to load and always start with the starting load, I have not had any issues.

[Seismic Sam]

1) COL is dependent on your gun and not to be found in a manual. The manual COL should be considered no more than the minimum COL the data applies to. The bullet is only one variable for determining the COL and no manual reports their COL as optimum.

You're missing the point entirely. ALL the Lee manual gives you is MINIMUM COL, which is NOT dependent in any way on the geometry of the gun or the mag!!! You're thinking of MAX COL, which does depend on the chamber and/or mag length.

And when you only specify a MIN COL for a bunch of bullets and do not take into account the lengths of those various bullets, they you are playing Russian Roulette with the pressures. Unforgiveable mistake in the presentation of the data.