9mm vs .45

[Chunkychuck]

I'm glad people consider the .40 to be out. That means there should always be enough to finish out my lifetime.

[Ironbear]

Ah, the old 9mm vs 45 debate. It's OLDER than I am, it's as worn out as I am, and it accomplishes about as much as I do.

As far as the 40, you deserve what you get for downsizing a really potent cartridge like the 10mm. It was only created because the 10mm hurt the widdle wrists of some of the FBI agents when they made the 1076 their official sidearm.

So.....
I think you just want to argue 9X23 vs. 10 mm vs. .45 Super....

[jshuberg]

I've got several .40 pistols that I have 9mm conversion barrels for. Depending on the gun, a conversion barrel and 9mm magazine is all you need, although some guns might require a different extractor as well.

This obviously gives the option of two calibers, but the conversion barrel is also thicker than either a standard 9mm or .40 barrel is. I like the additional weight, it makes the gun less sensitive to muzzle rise for a given recoil spring weight, and as the spring ages and loses some of its tension. Some people use a tungsten guide rod to add a little extra weight up front, but a thicker barrel also has the advantage of dissipating heat a little faster because of a larger surface area.


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[45Badger]

Really, you guys still question the one true faith?

[Rodentman]

I find that 9mm is tougher to reload due to the variance in barrels, at least among the 9's I own. Some are "loose" like the Glock, and others are tighter. I shouldn't have to have ammo specs for different barrels, and I won't do it. I guess I'll have to find the most restrictive barrel and load for that. This is also due to the wide difference in lead bullet shapes.

I don't have that issue with 45 and 40.

Of course there is always the highly extinct option that I haven't the foggiest idea how to reload 9mm, or reload in general.

[Seismic Sam]

Ah, the old 9mm vs 45 debate. It's OLDER than I am, it's as worn out as I am, and it accomplishes about as much as I do.

As far as the 40, you deserve what you get for downsizing a really potent cartridge like the 10mm. It was only created because the 10mm hurt the widdle wrists of some of the FBI agents when they made the 1076 their official sidearm.

So.....
I think you just want to argue 9X23 vs. 10 mm vs. .45 Super....

You forgot my 9x25 SSX Wildcat which can push a 90 grain 9mm bullet to 2175 FPS for just short of 1,000 ft-lbs

Just kidding actually, as my carry gun is the infamous 50 GI, and while the ft-lbs scale is only in the high 600's, the Taylor knock-out factor is 17.4, which is the full equivalent to a 44 mag 240 grain hunting load...

As such, I fart in the general direction of the whole 9mm vs 45 debate, which really IS older than I am at age 66...

[igofast]

I'm curious how the debate will change with the proliferation of Suppressors.

At a recent suppressor shoot, I was astounded by the difference in noise caused by the sonic crack of the 9mm vs the subsonic 45. Now, of course, you can run 147 gr 9mm loaded down a bit(note that this caused some reliability issues with a host gun), but you can run any(even +P) 230gr .45 and be subsonic.

Just goes to show that not everyone's needs are the same - vive la différence

[Ghost]

I'm curious how the debate will change with the proliferation of Suppressors.

At a recent suppressor shoot, I was astounded by the difference in noise caused by the sonic crack of the 9mm vs the subsonic 45. Now, of course, you can run 147 gr 9mm loaded down a bit(note that this caused some reliability issues with a host gun), but you can run any(even +P) 230gr .45 and be subsonic.

Just goes to show that not everyone's needs are the same - vive la différence

I was thinking this but then again probably best that if you had to shoot somebody you'd do it without the can.

[Ironbear]

I was thinking this but then again probably best that if you had to shoot somebody you'd do it without the can.

I would think that home-defense would be one of the best applications for a can. Nice to have your hearing afterwards.

[Ghost]

I was thinking this but then again probably best that if you had to shoot somebody you'd do it without the can.

I would think that home-defense would be one of the best applications for a can. Nice to have your hearing afterwards.

I agree but the world we live in doesn't exactly walk hand in hand with logic.

[jshuberg]

My next suppressor will be for my .45 nightstand gun. Subsonic, easier to suppress, doesn't over penetrate as much as a smaller faster bullet. It's just great in that application.


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[andrewP]

Now, of course, you can run 147 gr 9mm loaded down a bit(note that this caused some reliability issues with a host gun), but you can run any(even +P) 230gr .45 and be subsonic.

How are you guys defining subsonic? The speed of sound is a little over 1100 FPS. I know it varies with altitude, so at what speed to you say a given ammunition is subsonic? My usual 124 grain reloads are about 1040 or so FPS, which I would expect to be considered subsonic, but seeing you say that you have to download 147s in order to get them to be subsonic makes me wonder where the accepted line is.

[igofast]

Now, of course, you can run 147 gr 9mm loaded down a bit(note that this caused some reliability issues with a host gun), but you can run any(even +P) 230gr .45 and be subsonic.

How are you guys defining subsonic? The speed of sound is a little over 1100 FPS. I know it varies with altitude, so at what speed to you say a given ammunition is subsonic? My usual 124 grain reloads are about 1040 or so FPS, which I would expect to be considered subsonic, but seeing you say that you have to download 147s in order to get them to be subsonic makes me wonder where the accepted line is.

For me it's below 1000 fps. The speed doesn't vary with altitude as much as air density:

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/epz/?n=wxcalc_speedofsound

While even on a cold day, the speed of sound isn't below 1050 fps, if a bullet gets close to that threshold it experiences an effect called transonic - where the air moving around it goes supersonic. While not as loud as supersonic, it will be louder than something that is under this zone. There is also concerns of accuracy and bullet instability in the transonic region.

[andrewP]

Thanks for the info, igofast. Sounds like it might be interesting to load up different charge weights and chrono with a suppressor to see where exactly the transition from quiet to loud happens.

[igofast]

Here's more fuel to the fire:

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-de ... tic-tests/