Reloading .45 ACP

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Re: Reloading .45 ACP

Postby Seismic Sam on Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:32 pm

hard h2o wrote:
Seismic Sam wrote:Oh - seeing as you are used to reloading rifle brass and NOT pistol brass, I wanted to mention one point that you may not know: With stuff like 9mm, 38,and 45 brass, don't even bother to measure cases or think about trimming. I got some WCC 72 45 ACP headstamp brass I picked up in 1973, and I'm still shooting some of it today, and I think I wasted 10 minutes measuring cases 15 years ago and found it was still shorter than the trim length.


Thanks for confirming that. For the rifle I trim with Lee case length gauge and holder. I bought one for the .45. It was only something like $2.99 for the gauge and holder for the .45. In my reading I saw the same advice that you offered about not needing to trim. I will measure as I go and, I am sure, come to the same conclusion as you and most everyone else that it is not necessary.

I have acquired quite a bit of once fired brass already. I do not like the idea of range pickup brass. Never know how it has been treated prior to ending up discarded on the ground or floor of the range. Easy enough to buy brass or a box of ammo and know 100% where the brass came from.


Be careful of "buying a box of ammo"!! If it's Federal or Winchester or Remington then it's new brass. If you buy "Off Brands" like "800 pound reloading troll n00b sammich flavor 45 ACP ammo" which might be multiple headstamps, and that pretty much means it's range pickup brass just like what you're trying to avoid. Same for buying bulk brass in 100 or 250 pc bags where the headstamps are not all the same. The one saving grace of 45 ACP is that the SAAMI max pressure is around 20,000 PSI, which is very low, so unless you get cases from some idiot who tried to use 45 ACP brass fro 45 Super or 460 Rowland because he was cheap in addition to being named Cletus, you're probably alright.

The other rule to follow is that if it resizes harder than the rest of the cases, throw it away!! That rule is true for ALL calibers!!
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Re: Reloading .45 ACP

Postby hard h2o on Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:38 pm

Seismic Sam wrote:
Be careful of "buying a box of ammo"!! If it's Federal or Winchester or Remington then it's new brass. If you buy "Off Brands" like "800 pound reloading troll n00b sammich flavor 45 ACP ammo" which might be multiple headstamps, and that pretty much means it's range pickup brass just like what you're trying to avoid. Same for buying bulk brass in 100 or 250 pc bags where the headstamps are not all the same. The one saving grace of 45 ACP is that the SAAMI max pressure is around 20,000 PSI, which is very low, so unless you get cases from some idiot who tried to use 45 ACP brass fro 45 Super or 460 Rowland because he was cheap in addition to being named Cletus, you're probably alright.

The other rule to follow is that if it resizes harder than the rest of the cases, throw it away!! That rule is true for ALL calibers!!


Yep no remanufactured ammo. I was referring to buying new retail from Federal, WInchester, PMC, and the like.
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Re: Reloading .45 ACP

Postby aprilian on Thu Mar 16, 2017 7:11 am

Sam, another thing about the remanufactured ammo is that some companies take trade in brass. Some shooters only part with the brass that should have been scrapped. I got some Zero remanufactured target loads (before I started reloading) with a perforated case, +P cases and with a big chunk of one case mouth missing!

Seismic Sam wrote:The other rule to follow is that if it resizes harder than the rest of the cases, throw it away!! That rule is true for ALL calibers!!

What is the metallurgy behind this? I have noticed some cases where the resizing is harder and the bullet seating is harder. I just assumed it was thicker brass.
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Re: Reloading .45 ACP

Postby Seismic Sam on Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:20 am

One cause IS metallurgy, and brass can work harden and crack if it's flexed enough. In general, however, the cause is the Cletus factor, and you wind up with a case that some yahoo handloaded that was way too hot and/or in a stretched out chamber. The case is physically bigger down towards the base, and you can feel the larger size when you try to resize it. If it goes into the die noticeably harder, just chuck it. FWIW, however, it IS useful to look closely at cases like this, and see if you can find the tell-tale pressure signs. If you stop before you push the primer out, the primer signs can tell you a lot.
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Re: Reloading .45 ACP

Postby OldmanFCSA on Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:00 pm

EDIT: the following comments were directed towards "range pickup brass".
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Primer signs while useful if brand of primer is known, if unknown it is no longer useful.

WHY ? Because different primer manufacturers use different hardnesses of brass during manufacturing processes. A case with a Federal primer will show pressure due to deformation while a CCI primer will just show a slight flattening. (Federals are know to be softer than CCI primers in general. This is why I teach using Federal primers and only go to different primers on very specific loadings for my specific use.)

Look for scratches or deformation on the rim of case to determine number of firings for pistol or revolver brass.
On rifle or any bottle-necked brass, look for case stretch inside case near web of case head.

These are the "quickies" - there are other methods available also, but involve close measurement of specific areas.
Last edited by OldmanFCSA on Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Reloading .45 ACP

Postby hard h2o on Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:45 pm

OldmanFCSA wrote:Primer signs while useful if brand of primer is known, if unknown it is no longer useful.



If I am doing the reloading how am I not going to know the brand of primer I am using?
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Re: Reloading .45 ACP

Postby crbutler on Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:15 pm

Personally, with the limited pressure testing I have done, primers and their condition have little relationship to pressure. I have seen some lots of Remington that had backed out and even blown out of the pocket with loads that measured in the safe range, and some that were over 70,000 psi with no changes at all.

Really, the best thing is a good reference, a good scale, follow directions, and chronograph your loads...if you are getting too good to be true velocities, your up there.

Using primers to check for safety is not a good course, with all due respect to old man and Sam.
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Re: Reloading .45 ACP

Postby Seismic Sam on Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:56 pm

I must have phrased it wrong, because I was referring to primer signs that are signals that something is WRONG!! Normal looking primers are no assurance of anything, but one that is badly cratered or flattened to the point that it's filled up the primer pocket and even the RADIUS of the primer pocket are big red flags that something could be very wrong. If you pick up empties that look like this, dispose of them somewhere a n00b can't find them and try and reload them.

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Re: Reloading .45 ACP

Postby smurfman on Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:13 pm

And don't forget that some Federal 45 ACP brass ow use small pistol primers rather than large. That can gum up the loading process if the two different pocket sizes are mixed together.
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Re: Reloading .45 ACP

Postby hard h2o on Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:31 pm

smurfman wrote:And don't forget that some Federal 45 ACP brass ow use small pistol primers rather than large. That can gum up the loading process if the two different pocket sizes are mixed together.


Yep. I was aware of that. That is one of the reasons I started with factory fresh ammo. I can be sure of the provenance of the cases.

Here is some Herters factory ammo. The primers look very flattened out to me.

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Re: Reloading .45 ACP

Postby fine ape on Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:09 am

There's still a radius on the corner of the primers and the face looks lower than the back of the case.

In Sams picture the radius is gone and the primer face is pushed out. If you were to punch out those 9mm primers there would be a step formed in the outside dia of the primer. Also look at how the drag marks on the case head and primer line up.

I known S&B and Priv Partazen use primers that have less of a radius than U.S. primers
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Re: Reloading .45 ACP

Postby Seismic Sam on Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:01 am

TIME OUT!!! When I talk about primer signs, I am talking about FIRED cases ONLY!! The Herter's ammo in the picture is UNfired, and yes, they use flat primers to make up the stuff, but that doesn't mean anything, other than they have a different source of supply that's probably cheaper. In addition, Herter's went toes up ages ago, and I forget who it is that actually makes the ammo.
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Re: Reloading .45 ACP

Postby linksep on Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:32 am

Is Herters Cabela's house-brand? That's the only place I've ever noticed it.

I've bought Herters that was re-boxed Tula, a friend of mine said he got some that he thought was other Euro stamps (S&B or Privi Partizan, I can't recall).
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Re: Reloading .45 ACP

Postby Seismic Sam on Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:17 pm

It appears that Herter's ammo has ALWAYS been outsourced from Europe, and apparently Cabela's is the only dealer at present.

http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm.herters-ammo-ammunition.html

The Herter's catalog WAS a source of good reading, both in the house and the outhouse.....
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Re: Reloading .45 ACP

Postby westhope on Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:01 pm

Only used Sears or Wards catalogs in the outhouse. Herter's catalogs were kept "in the house" for ordering their "Professional Guide Quality" products. I occasionally still drive by the old catalog store in Waseca and think of the trips Dad would take us to the store.

I just used my Herter's "O" frame reloading press to load some 300 grain 45-70 test loads for my Ruger # 1.
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