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I have been noticing various levels of pressure needed to (hand) seat primers. I understand not all brass is the same (CBC, SB...) but how can I tell if a pocket is too loose. I haven't had any primers fall out, but how can I tell if a primer is loose enough to cause a potential problem. Seems subjective, and when in doubt throw it out, but how can I best tell if I should have doubt?

When you find a loose pocket on a hand primer, you'll know.

On a progressive? Good luck.

On a hand primer, you usually feel some resistance.

If you don't feel any, that's a loose pocket.

Ram prime or on a progressive, you don't get that feeling sensitivity.

Not sure what presses you guys are using, but I can feel loose pockets very easily on my Dillon 550. Seating a primer is the only thing the press does on the upstroke, why would it be hard to feel?

Rodentman, what cartridge are you loading and what type of gun will they be used in?

Ballistic Tools makes these handy pocket gages. $20 for the pair.



https://ballistictools.com/store/exclusive/small-and-large-primer-pocket-gauges

Erud wrote:Not sure what presses you guys are using, but I can feel loose pockets very easily on my Dillon 550. Seating a primer is the only thing the press does on the upstroke, why would it be hard to feel?

Rodentman, what cartridge are you loading and what type of gun will they be used in?

I have started noticing this on 40 S&W and .357 mag, auto and revolver uses.

Rip, thanks for the link to the tools. I ordered them, cheap enough and I feel it's good to have something quantifiable against which to measure.

WTF - why does my long reply disappear while typing?
Used Ctrl-C to Copy on a regular basis to reduce lossage.

As I tried before:

During a FCSA Sanctioned 50BMG Match recently, I had a similar situation where primers were removed from action after case removal, some were able to be removed by tapping case edge on table, and about half required removal by a punch mechanism.

My loading was at top of pressure curve on used cases with 7 loadings.

Case price about $0.75 each as were de-milled TZZ-95 brass, so about $0.11 each this usage
Primers price = $0.30 each
Powder price = $1.07 each
Projectile price $1.75 each
Loaded cartridge price = $3.23 each
Cost for the 150 Match cartridges loaded = $484.50

No labor or tooling cost figured in as tooling has been paid for for years, and labor costs are a labor of love for the Sport.

Costs to attend a match:

Fuel for 1700 miles round trip = $285
Motel Room = $130 (4 nights)
Food Approx = $80
Range Entry Fee = $50 per class so $100
Pit Puller $100 (due to my current knee condition)

Costs to attend = $695.00

If my loading was somewhat lighter, maybe the brass wouldn't have been ruined but the cost to produce would still be less than the cost to attend the Match. So the cost to scrap the brass would have been $16.50 total.

Additional costs, which are related to gas-jetting around primer and etching bolt-face, are zero in this case as an ArmaLite Professional provided a new bolt face unit at $0.00 cost.

Why the blown primers?

I developed and tested the loading here in Wisconsin at a mean temperature of 70 degrees and an altitude of approx 1100 feet above sea level. The rifle was cold each chrono shot.
At the Match, range temperatures were 97 degrees and climbing, and an altitude of 4600 feet above sea level. As Alliant Reloder-50 is not said to be temperature sensitive, I did not use any cooling methods for the ammo or provide heating equipment as I did for V.V.20N29 powders.
The rifle, a modified AR-50 with a 33" Feddersen barrel chambered with a 0.554" necked Match reamer, got very hot during the Relays. Untouchable action and barrel assembly. I firmly believe this combination caused the high pressure and thus loss-rate of my brass, while the rifle shot well for me to earn 2nd place in one class, 3rd place in another, and 4th Overall Placing with all scores and groups considered (not bad for not shooting any rifle for 15 months).

I've had a Match Director from Washington State say he would have dis-qualified me at sight of first blown primer.
I would have protested and with ArmaLite Professional attending, feel I would have won the protest.
As a former Match Director, I have seen much worse on the firing line, including a lady shooter using a rubber mallet to close & lock the bolt on a live round (her husband was a previous Match Director). I stopped her but we were able to help her by providing a piece of PVC tubing that fit over the bolt to give her more ability to close & lock the bolt (she recently had hand surgery).

So being out the cost of $16.50 for used brass blowing primers, it was of little cost considering all other costs involved. I firmly believe it was not a safety issue on this rifle and with my knowledge of the conditions. Others are allowed to disagree.

Your thoughts:

Not really sure where Old Man was going with all of that, but pistol brass is cheap. If the pockets feel loose, I will just toss them out rather than try to sort out problems later.

Erud wrote:Not really sure where Old Man was going with all of that, but pistol brass is cheap. If the pockets feel loose, I will just toss them out rather than try to sort out problems later.

In the overall picture, Rifle and Pistol brass is CHEAP, even odd Match brass.

I agree, if at time of loading the primer pockets are loose, SCRAP the brass.

Rip Van Winkle wrote:Ballistic Tools makes these handy pocket gages. $20 for the pair.



https://ballistictools.com/store/exclusive/small-and-large-primer-pocket-gauges

These are what I used to salvage a large lot of once fired "processed" military 5.56 brass. I had the opposite problem - tight primer pockets. I was seeing about a twenty percent failure rate trying to prime that brass. John-boy at GunStop recommended the primer pocket gauge that Rip showed. I was able to find the problem brass, swage it the rest of the way myself, and verify that it was good with the "Go" gauge. Loading the rest of that lot of brass was drama-free.

I agree that if the primer pocket gauges "No Go" then it's scrap. With a gauge you can know with certainty either way: "Go" or "No Go".

I will have those tools before I load my next batch. Thanks! I need something quantifiable rather than just "if it's loose."

Load up $1 worth of primers in cases that fail the no-go test... I imagine that would give you a pretty good feel for what (too) loose primer pockets feel like.

Rodentman wrote:I will have those tools before I load my next batch. Thanks! I need something quantifiable rather than just "if it's loose."

Fair enough. The go/no go gauges are great tools, but you’re going to want to develop a feel for the difference between the “go” and the “no go” to avoid having to use them on every single case you load.