Reloading in 2020

A place to discuss calibers, ammunition, and reloading

Re: Reloading in 2020

Postby BigDog58 on Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:17 am

Holland&Holland wrote:
andrewP wrote:
Holland&Holland wrote:Otherwise where do I put my order in with you for 9mm at $5 per box?


1) Approximately $5/box is my price for components, importantly not including brass, which I view as free since I pick up more after any given match than I shot in the match, and would include zero profit for me. If you want 9mm for $5/box, pick up and clean the brass, buy the components, and load it yourself. I'm happy to share the load data that I've found to work well, with the proviso that it may or may not work as well for you in your guns, and that anything you do with it is at your own risk. If your time is "too valuable," then pay more for factory ammo - it's no skin off my back.
2) It would be illegal for me to sell ammo I manufactured to you for a profit, as I do not have the requisite FFL for that - I reload for my own personal use, and that's all.
3) I'm not interested in being liable for what you do with ammo I produce, supporting you if it doesn't run properly in or blows up your gun(s), etc.

If the point that you're making is that I can't manufacture and sell it at $5/box and make a profit, then sure, that's completely true, and that's likely a large part of why factory ammo retails for so much more even given the economies of scale in play for manufacturers who turn out millions of rounds/month, but that's also not what I'm trying to do - my goal is to save myself money and tune loads to my gun(s), and reloading lets me do that. As mentioned earlier, comparisons to the rate I earn at work are flawed at best, as the time used is not time I would otherwise be paid for or have any obligations to use in any specific way. It's really just time I don't spend sitting in front of a TV or computer monitor. As long as it reduces the cost of my shooting hobby, which it definitely does, I'm money (and satisfaction) ahead on it.


Yes, but you miss the point. It is not just $5 per box. It is $5 plus time. How much time does it take you to do 50 rounds?


With a progressive press, less than 6 minutes ;)
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Re: Reloading in 2020

Postby Holland&Holland on Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:15 am

BigDog58 wrote:
With a progressive press, less than 6 minutes ;)


Once the cases are prepped. With free range brass there will be prep.
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Re: Reloading in 2020

Postby Erud on Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:18 am

Holland&Holland wrote:
BigDog58 wrote:
With a progressive press, less than 6 minutes ;)


Once the cases are prepped. With free range brass there will be prep.


Just out of curiosity, what do you want the number to be? :cogitating:
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Re: Reloading in 2020

Postby Holland&Holland on Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:20 am

Erud wrote:
Holland&Holland wrote:
BigDog58 wrote:
With a progressive press, less than 6 minutes ;)


Once the cases are prepped. With free range brass there will be prep.


Just out of curiosity, what do you want the number to be? :cogitating:


No preference. My point is that it will cost TIME. Time is not free so needs to be tabulated in the discussion.
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Re: Reloading in 2020

Postby BigDog58 on Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:42 am

Holland&Holland wrote:
BigDog58 wrote:
With a progressive press, less than 6 minutes ;)


Once the cases are prepped. With free range brass there will be prep.


What "Prep"? Putting the cases into and out of a tumbler takes all of 3 minutes. You don't count the tumbling time, because you can be doing other things.

Once on the Progressive press, (mine has a case feeder and 5 stations) everything from decap, size, prime, powder dump, bullet seat, and crimp, are done with each pull of the handle. I can legitimately produce 620 RPH without rushing or even breaking a sweat. This time includes restocking, case feeder, powder, and primers, and if we were only producing 50 rounds, no need to refill expendables.

This does take into account that my press would already be set to GO, as it always is.
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Re: Reloading in 2020

Postby Erud on Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:44 am

Holland&Holland wrote:
No preference. My point is that it will cost TIME. Time is not free so needs to be tabulated in the discussion.


Why? What is the hourly wage of a professional brass prep technician? When you buy ammo at the store, do you factor the hourly rate for your drive time to the store, fuel costs, and wear & tear on your vehicle into the final price? When ordering online, do you consider what an online purchasing agent would be paid fo what you are doing? Or do you just recognize that those are not things you get paid for? This is such a weird argument.
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Re: Reloading in 2020

Postby Holland&Holland on Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:12 am

Erud wrote:
Holland&Holland wrote:
No preference. My point is that it will cost TIME. Time is not free so needs to be tabulated in the discussion.


Why? What is the hourly wage of a professional brass prep technician? When you buy ammo at the store, do you factor the hourly rate for your drive time to the store, fuel costs, and wear & tear on your vehicle into the final price? When ordering online, do you consider what an online purchasing agent would be paid fo what you are doing? Or do you just recognize that those are not things you get paid for? This is such a weird argument.


Of course I do, do you not?

My point is, it is not $5 per box. It is $5 per box plus time. If you do not want to factor that into your personal calculation, fine, just do not expect others to not value their time as $0.
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Re: Reloading in 2020

Postby andrewP on Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:55 pm

Holland&Holland wrote:
Erud wrote:
Holland&Holland wrote:If you do not want to factor that into your personal calculation, fine, just do not expect others to not value their time as $0.


In all of this, you've never specified what hourly rate you value your non-work hours at.
Last edited by andrewP on Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Reloading in 2020

Postby Holland&Holland on Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:59 pm

andrewP wrote:
In all of this, you've never specified what specific hourly rate you value your non-work hours at.

How is that relevant? I am not the one claiming $5 per box retail equivalent.
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Re: Reloading in 2020

Postby andrewP on Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:06 pm

Holland&Holland wrote:
andrewP wrote:
In all of this, you've never specified what specific hourly rate you value your non-work hours at.

How is that relevant? I am not the one claiming $5 per box retail equivalent.

You're the one who is claiming that his time is super valuable. I just don't see how that makes sense without some sort of $ value and a justification for same.
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Re: Reloading in 2020

Postby Holland&Holland on Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:16 pm

andrewP wrote:
Holland&Holland wrote:
andrewP wrote:
In all of this, you've never specified what specific hourly rate you value your non-work hours at.

How is that relevant? I am not the one claiming $5 per box retail equivalent.

You're the one who is claiming that his time is super valuable. I just don't see how that makes sense without some sort of $ value and a justification for same.

No, I could care less how he values his time and folks can spend their time doing whatever they want. My point is that $5 plus time does not equate to $5 retail.
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Reloading in 2020

Postby LumberZach on Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:58 am

Brass prep is what really kills it for me. That and keeping track of it all. If I reload the same piece I’d brass 7 times, I figure I want to keep enough records to know that. But that does take even more fun out if it.

Currently, I’m not reloading for accuracy. That was my original intention when I bought the single stage press, but I have yet to really shoot enough volume at a reasonable expectation of accuracy to make it all worthwhile.

I have been starting to mess with 38/357, 10mm and 300blk more though. But at the cost of the equipment, I could nearly buy an AR and a revolver that shoot .22, save that way.

Coronavirus seems to have brought the market back to 2016 though and I imagine it’ll get worse.

To the $.10 a round thing, I did just buy 9mm wolf at $0.13 per round. It’s not as good, but it’s good enough for what I’m messing with until I try to go to an indoor range. I imagine $.13 won’t come around again anytime soon though.


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Re: Reloading in 2020

Postby DrewTea on Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:14 pm

Holland&Holland wrote:
BigDog58 wrote:
With a progressive press, less than 6 minutes ;)


Once the cases are prepped. With free range brass there will be prep.


how much was your progressive setup? You have to figure that into your cost, and your tumbler, and media.

If you've got $1500 into your setup, and components cost you $0.10 per round, then add $0.05/rd for 30k rounds to break even.
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Re: Reloading in 2020

Postby BigDog58 on Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:18 am

DrewTea wrote:
Holland&Holland wrote:
BigDog58 wrote:
With a progressive press, less than 6 minutes ;)


Once the cases are prepped. With free range brass there will be prep.


how much was your progressive setup? You have to figure that into your cost, and your tumbler, and media.

If you've got $1500 into your setup, and components cost you $0.10 per round, then add $0.05/rd for 30k rounds to break even.



I have $240 into my press (Lee Loadmaster) $30 in my 9mm dies, $160 in my Wet Tumbler & Pins (Thumblers Tumbler). I have loaded more than 20,000 rounds with this press/setup. I bought all of these used, and almost all of my 9mm brass was free. YMMV
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Re: Reloading in 2020

Postby DrewTea on Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:07 am

BigDog58 wrote:
DrewTea wrote:
BigDog58 wrote:
With a progressive press, less than 6 minutes ;)


how much was your progressive setup? You have to figure that into your cost, and your tumbler, and media.

If you've got $1500 into your setup, and components cost you $0.10 per round, then add $0.05/rd for 30k rounds to break even.



I have $240 into my press (Lee Loadmaster) $30 in my 9mm dies, $160 in my Wet Tumbler & Pins (Thumblers Tumbler). I have loaded more than 20,000 rounds with this press/setup. I bought all of these used, and almost all of my 9mm brass was free. YMMV


Rounding out to 20k rounds, your equipment has cost you $0.0215 per round.
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