bulk 5.56 case prep?

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bulk 5.56 case prep?

Postby Bitter Bastard on Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:55 am

I'm following the swaging thread closely. I have a similar need. I have a couple presses, a Dillon 550b that I've used pretty much only for pistol calibers and that works great and is very simple. Then my friend who sold it all to me showed the process for 5.56 and I got depressed at all the extra steps. I have the RCBS case prep station that is a pain to use if I want to process maybe a thousand cases or more. I have literally buckets of military brass.

I also have an RCBS turret press I've never used. Is it feasible to set that up for case prep - depriming and swaging, maybe even trimming, then going back to the 550b for the loading? Goal is to simplify 5.56 reloading for bulk use. Easy prep and reloading is the idea here. My thought is tumble, run it through the turret press for deprime, swage, and hopefully trim, then run it through the 550 for loading. Keep each press set up in that caliber, no switching anything back and forth. I like to adjust once and keep it there when possible.

Thoughts? Specific product recommendations?

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Re: bulk 5.56 case prep?

Postby crbutler on Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:25 pm

I did a 5k run of this this spring.

You won’t like the answer.

For bulk, you need automation. The cheapest way is a Dillon 1050 (or 1100) with the swage set up.

Case feeder runs them in.

Decap stage 1.

Swage removed stage 2.

Stage 3-6 empty.

Stage 7 resize/ trim.

8 empty.

Then you need to chamfer/deburr for good stuff, me, I rerun them through a sizing die to knock off the sharp edges a bit when I reload for the plinking grade ammo.

Chamfer/deburr and anneal the stuff for accuracy. That gets done at loading time.

Even with that automation it took me like 3 evenings to run the stuff through.

Frankly, you’re better off paying for processed brass IMO. I would if I hadn’t got the equipment already paid for.
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Re: bulk 5.56 case prep?

Postby Scratch on Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:32 pm

Here's what I do for case prep. Works very well for me.
https://gunstreamer.com/embed/AKNLbWbdilRalCu
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Re: bulk 5.56 case prep?

Postby Erud on Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:11 pm

Depending how much you have to do and how often, I might consider sending it to one of the guys that process brass for service rifle shooters. They charge a few cents per case, and send back brass that’s 100% ready to load.
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Re: bulk 5.56 case prep?

Postby BigDog58 on Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:20 pm

Scratch wrote:Here's what I do for case prep. Works very well for me.
https://gunstreamer.com/embed/AKNLbWbdilRalCu


Great video Scratch, and nice setup for reloading bulk rifle ammo :rock:
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Re: bulk 5.56 case prep?

Postby Bitter Bastard on Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:45 am

Scratch wrote:Here's what I do for case prep. Works very well for me.
https://gunstreamer.com/embed/AKNLbWbdilRalCu


That's great and close to what I was thinking, just a ton fancier. I see swageit.com has a 550b swager. I wonder if I could set up station 2 to deprime and the rotate backwards to station 1 for swaging? Is that dumb? I hate to mess with my muscle memory and start doing things backwards but seems like it might work.

Thoughts?

edit: yeah, that is dumb. Where would the spent primers go? hmmm.


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Re: bulk 5.56 case prep?

Postby crbutler on Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:17 am

Watching the video, it’s a nice solution. Cheap, and works for you. Never heard of that swage remover before. Learn something new every day.

Pretty much what I do with the 1050, although the swaging is not quite as stable as one could hope for- it looks like the shell plate is flexing when you do that.

They both (your and my) methods lack chamfer and deburr. While that works for plinking loads ok, it doesn’t work so great on loads you want sub MOA accuracy on, and the issues with function if you don’t do a good job with inspection (the Dillon trimmer will leave burrs if you either run it too fast or it has to take off a fair amount.

I brought a new trimmer to try and deal with that- if it arrives... it’s not automated with a case feed, but it trims, chamfers, and deburrs in one operation.
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Re: bulk 5.56 case prep?

Postby Scratch on Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:45 pm

crbutler wrote:Watching the video, it’s a nice solution. Cheap, and works for you. Never heard of that swage remover before. Learn something new every day.

Pretty much what I do with the 1050, although the swaging is not quite as stable as one could hope for- it looks like the shell plate is flexing when you do that.

They both (your and my) methods lack chamfer and deburr. While that works for plinking loads ok, it doesn’t work so great on loads you want sub MOA accuracy on, and the issues with function if you don’t do a good job with inspection (the Dillon trimmer will leave burrs if you either run it too fast or it has to take off a fair amount.

I brought a new trimmer to try and deal with that- if it arrives... it’s not automated with a case feed, but it trims, chamfers, and deburrs in one operation.


Yeah, there's no chamfer and debur step in my process. Dillon claims that it cuts so cleanly, there's no need for it, but sometimes, you can visibly see that there is a need for it, every once in a while. Not a need for what I do, as this process is only used for my training 556 ammo. I mean... I'm using Wolf projectiles in that video... I was lucky to get 3" groups at 100 yards with that stuff. Although I have switched to Berrys projectiles and the groups are right around an inch now.
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Re: bulk 5.56 case prep?

Postby Bitter Bastard on Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:19 pm

So, revisiting this. I got out my turret press for the first time on Saturday and deprimed and sized a few hundred rounds in under 45 minutes. It worked quite well and is obviously only part of case prep but got me thinking bulk case prep with multiple touches per case might not be that bad.

I'm thinking about this for a process:

1) tumble (I don't like the idea of dirty brass going through the press)
2) spray lube
3) on the 550b, set up a toolhead for deprime and get Dillon's RT1500 case trimmer. Two empty stations but that shouldn't matter.
4) on the turret press, swage the primer pockets with something like RCBS's tool: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012920663?pid=235832
5) tumble again (are clean primer pockets really necessary?)
6) spray lube
7) on the 550b - normal loading process - resize/prime, powder, seat, and then crimp

I feel like I need to go through each step with every case every time because brass I pick up may not be previously swaged or trimmed. This would be for blasting/practice ammo, not precision work. The only major expense I'd need to add is the RT1500, is there another alternative to that? I specifically don't want a trimmer I need to add a electric drill to; I want an all-on-one, ready to go trimmer.

Anything I missed? Better ways of doing this in bulk?

Thanks,

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Re: bulk 5.56 case prep?

Postby crbutler on Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:50 pm

Trimmers can be very different.

I have a few. Dillon’s set up is good for doing a lot at a time, but it’s not very good for multiple calibers. It’s also quite touchy to set up right. You absolutely need a case gauge to use it.

The RT motor is one part, then you need the trimming die for Dillon- and that is case specific. It’s essentially a modified sizing die.

The Lyman self powered trimmer is what I do most trimming on. From .470 to .17 it works with just a pilot and some fiddling to set it up. It is pretty reasonable dealing with a couple hundred of any given case.

The things like the little crow require a drill or a lathe to use.

The hand held manual ones work, but are slow.

The old trim die an using a file can be very efficient, but are hard to find, and you need to get a good file and file card.

If you are talking 1-200 at a time, you don’t necessarily need to go the Dillon route, IMO that’s the several thousand piece run method.
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Re: bulk 5.56 case prep?

Postby crbutler on Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:56 pm

Trimmers can be very different.

I have a few. Dillon’s set up is good for doing a lot at a time, but it’s not very good for multiple calibers. It’s also quite touchy to set up right. You absolutely need a case gauge to use it.

The RT motor is one part, then you need the trimming die for Dillon- and that is case specific. It’s essentially a modified sizing die.

The Lyman self powered trimmer is what I do most trimming on. From .470 to .17 it works with just a pilot and some fiddling to set it up. It is pretty reasonable dealing with a couple hundred of any given case.

The things like the little crow require a drill or a lathe to use.

The hand held manual ones work, but are slow.

The old trim die an using a file can be very efficient, but are hard to find, and you need to get a good file and file card.

If you are talking 1-200 at a time, you don’t necessarily need to go the Dillon route, IMO that’s the several thousand piece run method.

AFAIC, cleaning primer pockets isn’t really necessary when you are making plinking rounds- most don’t do it with pistol, and rifle is no different.

If you really want to minimize steps, but still clean the pockets, use a universal decap die (no lube needed at all) then clean the brass by whatever method after that. Saves a clean cycle for you.
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Re: bulk 5.56 case prep?

Postby BigDog58 on Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:27 pm

As far as case trimming goes, I bought the Frankford Arsenal https://www.amazon.com/Frankford-Arsenal-Platinum-Hardened-Scrapers/dp/B00HS7JEB4 a few years ago, and really like it . However, about 6 months ago I bought a Giraud and fell in love with it, the first time I used it. I ordered individual Case Holders and Cutter Head with Blade for each rifle caliber I load for http://www.giraudtool.com/giraud-power-trimmer.html. This allows me to only have to setup one time for each caliber, and simply change parts to the caliber I plan trimming (takes about 2 minutes) and go to work.

While the Giraud is expensive, IMHO it is the BEST Trimmer on the market, and I've tried several different models. It trims, chamfers and deburrs all at the same time, which really saves time. I'm currently mainly trimming my 50 BMG Match Brass and my 6mm BR Match Brass, and I get consistent lengths, within .001".

I still like the FA but it hasn't been used in many months now.
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Re: bulk 5.56 case prep?

Postby Rum River on Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:14 am

OP, just curious what process you ended up using?
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Re: bulk 5.56 case prep?

Postby Bitter Bastard on Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:48 am

Rum River wrote:OP, just curious what process you ended up using?


I used my credit card and bought another case of ammo.

I decided for now it wasn't worth the hassle to reload 5.56 in bulk. But with the ammo shortage, I ran out of precision loads for my heavy barrel AR. My process for that worked great and I was able to work up a load that shrunk my best groups from about .75" with factory match ammo to about .30" at 100 yards. I'm super happy with that.

1) tumble
2) spray lube
3) size and deprime on the turret press
4) tumble again
5) trim with a hand trimmer, not sure what brand but maybe a Forster?
6) use the RCBS case prep center with 4 stations to:
clean the primer pocket
remove the primer crimp
primer pocket uniforming
bevel the neck inside
bevel the neck outside
brush to clean the inside
7) On the 550, spray lube and load as normal

Processing brass 30 or so at a time isn't too horrible. Deprime and resize on the turret press is super fast and easy, it's really the steps on the RCBS that suck. I've found that once-fired brass needed to be trimmed but after the 2nd firing it was fine. Haven't got this set of cases to 3 loadings yet.

I'm loading with H335 at the lower end of what the book calls for and AOL is slightly longer. I started my loads with 3 powder charges, about 1 gr up from minimum to about 1 gr below max. I found the lower charge was a lot more accurate. Once I had that, I loaded 3 different OALs, which quickly turned into 2 as the 3rd length wouldn't fit in the magazine. But the ever-so-slightly longer AOL shrunk the groups by another .2" or so from what I remember. It was noticeable. Bullets are Sierra 69gr HPBT matchkings, which the rifle previously showed a preference for.


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Re: bulk 5.56 case prep?

Postby Rum River on Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:49 am

I used my credit card and bought another case of ammo.
Lol, perfect answer.

In my case I:
1) Tumble
2) Lube w/Dillon lube
3) Size/deprime on a Rockchucker
4) Trim w/RCBS Trim Pro w/3 way cutter
5) Tumble
6) Load on 550 Dillon

Found out it saved a lot of time to size/deprime while the case trimmer is cycling.
Almost like I get the resizing time for free.
I shoot mainly commercial brass, so for any military stuff I have to add the primer pocket swaging step.

I confess I don't clean or uniform the primer pockets.
Have you compared accuracy with/without those steps to see if there's a difference?
Just curious.....

You're getting great groups, what kind of rifle?
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