Forever chemicals’ in deer, fish challenge hunters, tourism

[minnesotatv]

Forever chemicals’ in deer, fish challenge hunters, tourism

PORTLAND, Maine (AP) — Wildlife agencies in the U.S. are finding elevated levels
of a class of toxic chemicals in game animals such as deer — and that’s prompting
health advisories in some places where hunting and fishing are ways of life and key
pieces of the economy.

https://apnews.com/article/science-mich ... eb6d07a30a

[yukonjasper]

Hard to say how much panic mongering is done to disrupt activities that are "frowned upon" by the usual antagonists. I also wonder what the guidance is for threshold levels before a level of danger is reached. Better if there were no traces at all, but that ship has sailed. I fear the intentional introduction or false publication of detected levels if this initial campaign appears successful. Just another way to manipulate behavior.

[daleamn]

Just another way to manipulate behavior.

Sad, but I think that has to be a consideration.

Side note: No one of any official status has ever, to my knowledge, said this but I've read comments that you can't eat wild game that's been shot because the lead contaminates the meat. Again, this wasn't anyone in authority saying it but it goes to the mind set of what's out their in the world. This too is sad.

[Lumpy]

Ecosocialism, when they can't ban liberty or a free market any other way.

[Holland&Holland]

Just another way to manipulate behavior.

Sad, but I think that has to be a consideration.

Side note: No one of any official status has ever, to my knowledge, said this but I've read comments that you can't eat wild game that's been shot because the lead contaminates the meat. Again, this wasn't anyone in authority saying it but it goes to the mind set of what's out their in the world. This too is sad.

I gotta get my lead intake from somewhere. Can't chew on fishing weights any longer!

[Markemp]

I don't know, we did a pretty good job lowering the amount of mercury in fish and DDT in birds through stricter environmental regulations. Personally I'm pretty happy with that. Not a big fan of consuming mercury.

The only information I've seen about consuming meat from an animal shot with a lead bullet is to avoid the meat around the holes, since small fragments can shear off for a little way. Not a problem for deer hunting, unless you're a really bad shot. Pheasants and turkey... well, you can't live forever.

[crbutler]

As we get better at testing for things and having a “zero tolerance” policy, you are going to find more and more things like this.

FYI, DDT is one of the safest and most efficacious anti parasitic drugs out there. We still use it in very limited situations and a human can literally drink the stuff and be OK. Its effect on avian predators is what got it banned.

A lot of the anti lead stuff is from folks trying to find a way to ban hunting.

Remember mercury and lead are in the periodic table of the elements for a reason. They naturally exist and are around. If we go zero tolerance on them, we have to leave the planet.

Keeping yourself from high level exposure is a choice you need to make.

By the way, if you get shot and have a bullet in you, it makes no detectable difference in your lead levels. Metallic lead is not bioavailable. Organic lead compounds are very neurotoxic. The old white lead paint pigment was nonmetallic and was bioavailble when consumed in significant quantities. So lead paint (lead oxide) is hazardous to people. Lead vapors from igniting primers can be as well.

The argument is that birds can convert lead in gut piles (scavengers) into oxidized lead in their gizzards and thus we poison buzzards and such with lead bullets.

Lead fragments in game are metallic lead, and unless you do some really extreme things with your meat it will remain so and go out your other end without doing much.

The studies done on game eating really show no human lead level increase. The studies that purport harm are based on finding detectable lead in the meat, not a clinical outcome of lead toxicity.

Also, high levels of iron exposure are also bad… but steel shot is “good”?

[Markemp]

Who is arguing a zero tolerance policy in this thread? “They”?

[crbutler]

What do you think the comments on forever chemicals are?

Does the amounts found even approach LD1? (Lethal dose in 1% of the population)? Note that most toxicology is based on LD50 numbers.

The “news” is that we have detected them in game.

Did we detect them because:
Improved technology in detection?
We finally started looking?
They finally built up enough to find them?

Or

We already knew but it’s politically expedient to frighten folks to “DO SOMETHING!!!”?

[Markemp]

What are your thoughts on regulations around lead water pipes? Completely unnecessary I take it?

[xd ED]

What are your thoughts on regulations around lead water pipes? Completely unnecessary I take it?

Pretty much; yes.
Read up on water treatment techniques, and look at the cross section of a removed lead water service line.
Lead service lines haven’t been installed for almost a century.
In that time the calcium plating typically has caused enough tuberculation to reduce the original diameter of a residential service line ~ 5/8 - 3/4”, down to the point where one wonders how any significant volume of water can pass.
Most lead service lines examined have at least 1/8” of mineral scale- calcium, magnesium, etc coating the interior of the service line.

Next- compare lead levels in delivered water in services using lead lines, vs copper, or steel

[crbutler]

Or the “forever chemicals” with use of various plastic pipes.

I do think lead solder on copper pipes was an insignificant factor.

Lead poisoning has drastically gone down in kids (the vulnerable population) over time with banning lead paint.

All of these decisions are supposed to be made on factual risk/benefit assessments.

Is its good to know the penetration of PFHC’s into the environment? Sure. Is it good to use this information to place some limits on industry? Depends on the costs (not just monetary). But you are exhibiting the zero tolerance attitude. Claiming that PFHC’s are going to tank hunting due to a study finding them in venison is what? Lead pipes bad, without having actual knowledge of the subject?

I know a bit about lead poisoning and toxicology, and public health. I don’t know much about plumbing.

[Lumpy]

So what happened in Flint MI? My understanding is that a switchover in water source didn't provide the lead amelioration measures the old source had.

[Holland&Holland]

Who is arguing a zero tolerance policy in this thread? “They”?

Pretty sure “they” includes you pretty much anytime it is used on this forum.