Just asking, MN DNR definition of an AR-15 pistol?

[jasper_mn]

I have an AR-15 pistol in 300 AAC. Has an 10" barrel with a KAK buffer tube with SB15 suport. As assembled the over all lenght is 28.5" which is longer than the 26" definition of a pistol even though the barrel is only 10". Would it be legal to use this in the southern shotgun zones as a pistol?

Minnesota statute defines a "Pistol" includes a weapon designed to be fired by the use of a single hand and with an overall length less than 26 inches, or having a barrel or barrels of a length less than 18 inches in the case of a shotgun or having a barrel of a length less than 16 inches in the case of a rifle.

I'm confused!

[farmerj]

I have an AR-15 pistol in 300 AAC. Has an 10" barrel with a KAK buffer tube with SB15 suport. As assembled the over all lenght is 28.5" which is longer than the 26" definition of a pistol even though the barrel is only 10". Would it be legal to use this in the southern shotgun zones as a pistol?

Minnesota statute defines a "Pistol" includes a weapon designed to be fired by the use of a single hand and with an overall length less than 26 inches, or having a barrel or barrels of a length less than 18 inches in the case of a shotgun or having a barrel of a length less than 16 inches in the case of a rifle.

I'm confused!

I really hope you have a form 4 for that SBR. Because that's what the BATFE will consider that thing with that stock and barrel on it. $10,000 and/or 10 years in club fed.

[yuppiejr]

SB15 is the non permanent Sig Brace that the ATF has not classified as a stock. It's not an SBR, the 26" measurement should be from the end of the buffer tube (SB15 removed) to the end of the threaded muzzle, unless the flash hider/brake/comp is permanently welded.

Going over 26" with an otherwise legal AR pistol does not make it an SBR either, it becomes a "firearm" and is no longer eligible to be carried with a P2C or hunted with in shotgun/pistol zones in MN...

Good info here on the topic:

http://jerkingthetrigger.com/2013/11/20 ... nceptions/

[Vashjir]

Looks like you have 3 or 4 extra inches in that buffer tube, you could just replace it with a shorter tube to make it mn 'pistol' legal. Even if the sig brace isn't pushed all the way onto the buffer tube it should be plenty stable, and the extra length of just brace doesn't count towards the 26" limit.

[jasper_mn]

Thanks, guess I'll have to find a shorted buffer tube and go without the SB15 brace. Just need to reduce it by about 2". The KAK tube is a little on the long side. Pretty sure I can come with a shorter tube.

The "stock" is a Sig Sauer SB15, and is classified as a support by the ATF, but thanks for your concern.

[Vashjir]

I got one of these to go with my sig brace. It fits nice and tight, and is flush with the brace when the sb15 is pushed all the way forward. Mine cost 41$ for the whole assembly in bid (not buy it now) auction.

[yuppiejr]

http://phase5wsi.com/hex-2-pistol-buffe ... hex-2.html

7 & 3/8" long, gives you the benefit of a shorter tube for OAL calculations against the 26" max but keeps the brace a bit away from the receiver a couple of inches to give you a longer LOP if you choose to fire the pistol from the shoulder. Try shooting a rifle size AR with the adjustable buttstock fully collapsed and you'll quickly realize why the Phase 4 and KAK are so popular.

I just built a "firearm" length pistol for a family member and with a 12.5" barrel and the phase 5 buffer tube... I measured 26.5" to the end of the muzzle threads, a 10.5" barrel should mean 24.5" overall with the Phase 5 Hex installed which puts you comfortably inside the OAL requirements for a pistol in MN.

[jasper_mn]

What was confusing to me was the use of the word "or" in the definition in the statute. The way it reads it could mean anything with a barrel length less than 16". Read the original post.

[Scratch]

http://phase5wsi.com/hex-2-pistol-buffer-tube-hex-2.html

7 & 3/8" long, gives you the benefit of a shorter tube for OAL calculations against the 26" max but keeps the brace a bit away from the receiver a couple of inches to give you a longer LOP if you choose to fire the pistol from the shoulder. Try shooting a rifle size AR with the adjustable buttstock fully collapsed and you'll quickly realize why the Phase 4 and KAK are so popular.

I just built a "firearm" length pistol for a family member and with a 12.5" barrel and the phase 5 buffer tube... I measured 26.5" to the end of the muzzle threads, a 10.5" barrel should mean 24.5" overall with the Phase 5 Hex installed which puts you comfortably inside the OAL requirements for a pistol in MN.

I really like the look of that. Phase5 tube! I wish I would have gotten that instead of the KAK tube just because of the hexagon shape alone.



Jasper, I could be wrong, but it looks like you have an extension on your KAK tube, how long is that?

[PRS]

https://secure.arnzenarms.com/product/26026


That one gives a really nice complete look to the sig brace.


https://secure.arnzenarms.com/product/25944

[Sigfan220]

https://secure.arnzenarms.com/product/26026


That one gives a really nice complete look to the sig brace.


https://secure.arnzenarms.com/product/25944

This is the one I used. It works great and is spaced just right. It has a nice tight fit so the brace doesn't want to turn on you.

[yuppiejr]

I really like the look of that. Phase5 tube! I wish I would have gotten that instead of the KAK tube just because of the hexagon shape alone.



Jasper, I could be wrong, but it looks like you have an extension on your KAK tube, how long is that?

Yea, it's a nice looking buffer tube and has a notch to index and lock it in place on the buffer detent unlike some of the pistol tubes (KAK Gen 1, PSA's generic offering, etc.) that are friction fit and more prone to twisting under pressure. The tube itself does not extend the full length of the channel in the brace and they include a metal cap that lets you use this void for storage of small items (like the SB15 ATF letter) which is a nice plus. I found the Phase 5 tube added enough space between the brace and receiver to compare with a collapsible AR stock on the second notch which is about where I run mine in the fall when I'm hunting with heavier clothes or a tree-stand harness on.

The G2 KAK tube is longer than the Phase5 by over an inch (7.375" vs 8.45" from the endplate) plus the extension kit which will add .625, 1.25 or 1.875" depending on which spacer(s) you use. From the photo it looks like the 1.25" extension is installed so the tube pictured is 9.7" long.

[yuppiejr]

Out of curiosity I checked measurements on my 6.8 SPC AR pistol with the Phase 5 Hex buffer tube and a 10.5" YHM barrel on a standard forged upper: 25" from end of buffer tube to the end of the threaded muzzle, length of pull (face of trigger to end of the brace) is 13" with the SIG Brace installed.

[20mm]

are you going to ask about the MN DNR's definition of an assault rifle next?

[PRS]

where do you find the legal definition of a pistol?