Just asking, MN DNR definition of an AR-15 pistol?

[20mm]

where do you find the legal definition of a pistol?

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=624.712

[PRS]

Subd. 2.Pistol. "Pistol" includes a weapon designed to be fired by the use of a single hand and with an overall length less than 26 inches, or having a barrel or barrels of a length less than 18 inches in the case of a shotgun or having a barrel of a length less than 16 inches in the case of a rifle (1) from which may be fired or ejected one or more solid projectiles by means of a cartridge or shell or by the action of an explosive or the igniting of flammable or explosive substances; or (2) for which the propelling force is a spring, elastic band, carbon dioxide, air or other gas, or vapor.




So…. lawyer time.

Gun is 27 inch overall length but a barrel length of 10 inches. that would be a pistol?

[yuppiejr]

Overall length over 26" takes it out of pistol classification, but if it otherwise fits the build criteria for an AR pistol it's now a "firearm" and still does not require an SBR classification-stamp.

[PRS]

How do you figure with the clause or having a barrel or barrels of a length less than 18 inches in the case of a shotgun or having a barrel of a length less than 16 inches in the case of a rifle?

[yuppiejr]

http://www.franklinarmory.com/XO-26_Letter__c_.pdf

The second to last paragraph from the end is the most important to this discussion.

Also, this one provides additional clarification around barrel length and AR15 pistols (there is no limit on barrel length for an AR15 pistol).

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0qyloA ... l=en&pli=1

Tons of information out there, ARFCOM has a single thread in which the various ATF clarification letters regarding AR15 pistol builds have been consolidated:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_122/5250 ... stols.html

[PRS]

But is there an OAL max for hunting in MN?

[yuppiejr]

How do you figure with the clause or having a barrel or barrels of a length less than 18 inches in the case of a shotgun or having a barrel of a length less than 16 inches in the case of a rifle?

"Pistol" includes a weapon designed to be [b]fired by the use of a single hand and with an overall length less than 26 inches,[/b]

The rest is irrelevant for purposes of this discussion as we're talking about an AR pistol, not a rifle or shotgun.

The "OAL limit" for purposes of hunting are not part of the hunting regulations I've found, only the class of weapon (pistol/shotgun/muzzleloader/rifle) that can be used in each area indicated on the zone map, and common legal game cartridge requirements (http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/regulations/ ... idges.html).

[jasper_mn]

The reason I ask is because I have a 10.5" barrel and a KAK Buffer tube SB-15 with SB-15 installed.

http://www.kakindustry.com/ar-15-parts/lower-parts/buffer-tubes-and-parts/sig-sb15-pistol-buffer-tube

OAL is 26 3/4" end of barrel thread to end of buffer tube. I emailed the DNR to ask if it was legal to use it in a southern shotgun zone seeing that pistols are legal also. The response I recieved was

"It has to be truly a pistol, that sounds like a rifle."

That was all and an exact quote I got from them.

Then I looked for what the states definition of a pistol was. Thats why I ask.

[yuppiejr]

Minnesota and federal law both indicate the legal requirements for a firearm to meet the classification of "pistol," just because a DNR agent things something "sounds like" a rifle does not mean he/she is familiar with the particulars of the regulations that apply. In the case of your firearm, you are 3/4" over the 26" max OAL that would allow it to meet the pistol classification meaning you can't hunt a "shotgun" zone in the state with it. The Phase 5 Hex Tube is probably your best bet to get inside of the 26" limit.

Ultimately it is your choice how to proceed, advice on the internet is generally worth what it costs and I'm not here to provide legal advice - just the information I've gathered on the subject that may help you decide if it's something you want to pursue.

[Holland&Holland]

The reason I ask is because I have a 10.5" barrel and a KAK Buffer tube SB-15 with SB-15 installed.

http://www.kakindustry.com/ar-15-parts/lower-parts/buffer-tubes-and-parts/sig-sb15-pistol-buffer-tube

OAL is 26 3/4" end of barrel thread to end of buffer tube. I emailed the DNR to ask if it was legal to use it in a southern shotgun zone seeing that pistols are legal also. The response I recieved was

"It has to be truly a pistol, that sounds like a rifle."

That was all and an exact quote I got from them.

Then I looked for what the states definition of a pistol was. Thats why I ask.

But it is NOT a rifle otherwise you would need a tax stamp. And it is not a pistol. And certainly not a shotgun so... Plus it looks like you already got your NO answer out of the DNR so I guess you might win in court if you want to try. Of course that would be after they ticketed you, took your deer, and your non-pistol firearm.

[jasper_mn]

Thanks everyone. Cost of another buffer tube (<$50) that will get me under length will be a lot cheaper and safer in the long run. Not worth the major cost of the hassles that it could cause. A shorter tube is in my future.

Will just use the KAK tube I have on a future build. Gives me a excuse to build another! 8" barrel next time

[PRS]

Seems to me we are ignoring the word "or"…..

[Holland&Holland]

Seems to me we are ignoring the word "or"…..

Or only applies if it is a rifle or a shotgun. If he built a rifle then he has bigger issues to concern himself with than the DNR.

[yuppiejr]

"Pistol" includes a weapon designed to be fired by the use of a single hand and with an overall length less than 26 inches, or having a barrel or barrels of a length less than 18 inches in the case of a shotgun or having a barrel of a length less than 16 inches in the case of a rifle



... so all I'm reading here is that if you have a shotgun with a barrel less than 18" or a rifle with a barrel length of less than 16" it is classified as a "pistol" in MN. The SBR rifle guys must be on to something since, unless there's another statue out there further clarifying the topic, a registered SBR (rifle with a barrel less than 16") meets MN's definition of a 'pistol' and could be used to hunt deer pretty much anywhere in the state during firearms seasons and be carried on one's person concealed with a P2C?

The OP currently has a "firearm" per ATF's definition (see my link above) which does not fit any of the classifications noted in the MN statute defining a "pistol." It's not a pistol, and it's not a rifle, thus it's not controlled by the NFA requiring a tax stamp, not does it fit the MN definition of a pistol since it's not under 26" nor is it a rifle with a barrel less than 16" or a shotgun with a barrel less than 18".

Like I said earlier, for purposes of this discussion the "or" is irrelevant as we're either talking about pistols with OAL less than 26" or "firearms" which are outside the definitions provided in the MN statute.

[Erik_Pakieser]

Remember, based on ATF standards overall length does not include the flash suppressor (unless permanently welded). You might be able to shave a couple of inches off your OAL by taking that into consideration.