hunting sidearm

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hunting sidearm

Postby justinvan on Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:07 pm

My father inlaw is wanting to get a sidearm to carry for elk hunting and is looking for some advise on caliber. Some of his coworkers are pushing him to get a 1911 and i dont really agree with it. It will be a nightstand gun as well as a hunting sidearm. I think .44 is good for the hunting aspect but am afraid he will never use it otherwise. I think a .357 that he could shoot .38's out of for some plinking would be more apt to see some use and keep him proficient , but i also feel that .357 is a little light for bear defense. Some people have the mentality that if it isnt a .44 or bigger your just going to piss off the bear and be in a worse position than what you started in. I myself have the mentality that i would take my chances with a hot .357 over nothing but dont want to misguide him.

Thoughts?

I have revolvers in pretty much all calibers that i could borrow him but he wants something of his own and needs some guidance. I intend to bring him some samples of revolvers from my collection to shoot before he buys so he can get a feel for the recoil and sizes.
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hunting sidearm

Postby gun_fan111v2 on Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:41 pm

Which guns does he shoot well? Revolvers? Semi-autos? Both? If it is 1911 that he shoots well they come in .357 and 10mm flavors but you can also buy a conversion for something like 460 Rowland if you think nothing smaller will do https://www.460rowland.com
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Re: hunting sidearm

Postby crbutler on Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:33 pm

By wanting a sidearm for elk hunting, what does he mean?

Primary gun to hunt with?

Something to kill his horse if he's stuck in a stirrup and being dragged?

Something to finish off an elk?

Something to protect against bears while doing things with the rifle not in hand?

2 legged varmints?


The 1911 is really only practical for the last. Any auto pistol that has enough oomph for elk (or bears) is liable to be heavier than a comparable revolver, with the exception of some of the 10mm autos.

The horse thing needs to be a relatively powerful gun, as would an elk hunting gun. Down side is these tend to be bigger and heavier. .41 or .44 mags, or a .45 colt with heavy bullets. A .357 would do in a pinch for the horse, and is fine for finishing off a wounded animal, but a little light for a primary hunting gun on elk. For the horse bit, an auto is not a good choice as the bouncing and whatnot could well get it out of battery.

If you are hunting with a rifle, the pistol really is just added weight unless you are the type of guy who gets more than a step from your rifle a lot. Like while getting fire wood or hauling stuff around or packing out. It can be useful, but I found pretty quickly it was easier to keep the rifle at hand than to pack another 2 to 3 pounds of handgun around all the time. I ended up buying a S&W 329 scandium .44 mag and still thought it easier to keep the rifle around than having both all the time, but I was not horse back hunting (Alaska and bear territory). An elk rifle has it all over any pistol for stopping an upset bear.

As to the .44 for other shooting, you can do like you were saying with the .357; get some .44 special ammo for situations that don't require the full power loads, a .44 mag is a pussycat with .44 special ammo.

The places I have been around elk there have been black bears, which are really not that much of a problem, and a .357 is enough gun for them. It is not really enough for Grizzly or Brown bear, although Phil Shoemaker (a well known bear guide) took a big brownie out with a 9mm a year or two back when it was all he had while with some fishing clients. If his heart is on an auto, a Glock 20 (or one of the subcompact versions-which are quite unpleasant to shoot with full power ammo) 10mm is really his only choice for that unless he wants something that will approximate the weight of his hunting rifle. (a steel 10 mm is a fun pistol, but they weigh a bit)-

The point being is unless he is going to commit to always wearing the handgun, he's better off just sticking to learning not to leave the rifle elsewhere from a hunting perspective. A pistol in the tent is useless when you are at the stream getting water. Once you determine if he really wants a pistol for hunting, or if this is an excuse to get one, then you can make more credible choices- a .41-.44 mag is really not the best pistol choice except for handgun hunting or bear defense, and those are very limited circumstances.
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Re: hunting sidearm

Postby Ghost on Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:35 pm

gun_fan111v2 wrote:Which guns does he shoot well? Revolvers? Semi-autos? Both? If it is 1911 that he shoots well they come in .357 and 10mm flavors but you can also buy a conversion for something like 460 Rowland if you think nothing smaller will do https://www.460rowland.com

This, All I could think of was 10mm loaded with some quality ammo good enough for everything in the lower 48.
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Re: hunting sidearm

Postby Holland&Holland on Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:56 pm

Ghost wrote:
gun_fan111v2 wrote:Which guns does he shoot well? Revolvers? Semi-autos? Both? If it is 1911 that he shoots well they come in .357 and 10mm flavors but you can also buy a conversion for something like 460 Rowland if you think nothing smaller will do https://www.460rowland.com

This, All I could think of was 10mm loaded with some quality ammo good enough for everything in the lower 48.

Here it is. Remington has rebranded the old para 1911 10mm
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Re: hunting sidearm

Postby yukonjasper on Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:55 am

SAR K2. double stack .45 giving you 14 rounds of 45 caliber stopping power. $369 last time I checked CDNN.
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Re: hunting sidearm

Postby justinvan on Sun Feb 26, 2017 7:41 am

Primarily used for protection from bear and 2 legged predators. Alot of his hunting is done with bow or black powder.

crbutler wrote:By wanting a sidearm for elk hunting, what does he mean?

Primary gun to hunt with?

Something to kill his horse if he's stuck in a stirrup and being dragged?

Something to finish off an elk?

Something to protect against bears while doing things with the rifle not in hand?

2 legged varmints?


The 1911 is really only practical for the last. Any auto pistol that has enough oomph for elk (or bears) is liable to be heavier than a comparable revolver, with the exception of some of the 10mm autos.

The horse thing needs to be a relatively powerful gun, as would an elk hunting gun. Down side is these tend to be bigger and heavier. .41 or .44 mags, or a .45 colt with heavy bullets. A .357 would do in a pinch for the horse, and is fine for finishing off a wounded animal, but a little light for a primary hunting gun on elk. For the horse bit, an auto is not a good choice as the bouncing and whatnot could well get it out of battery.

If you are hunting with a rifle, the pistol really is just added weight unless you are the type of guy who gets more than a step from your rifle a lot. Like while getting fire wood or hauling stuff around or packing out. It can be useful, but I found pretty quickly it was easier to keep the rifle at hand than to pack another 2 to 3 pounds of handgun around all the time. I ended up buying a S&W 329 scandium .44 mag and still thought it easier to keep the rifle around than having both all the time, but I was not horse back hunting (Alaska and bear territory). An elk rifle has it all over any pistol for stopping an upset bear.

As to the .44 for other shooting, you can do like you were saying with the .357; get some .44 special ammo for situations that don't require the full power loads, a .44 mag is a pussycat with .44 special ammo.

The places I have been around elk there have been black bears, which are really not that much of a problem, and a .357 is enough gun for them. It is not really enough for Grizzly or Brown bear, although Phil Shoemaker (a well known bear guide) took a big brownie out with a 9mm a year or two back when it was all he had while with some fishing clients. If his heart is on an auto, a Glock 20 (or one of the subcompact versions-which are quite unpleasant to shoot with full power ammo) 10mm is really his only choice for that unless he wants something that will approximate the weight of his hunting rifle. (a steel 10 mm is a fun pistol, but they weigh a bit)-

The point being is unless he is going to commit to always wearing the handgun, he's better off just sticking to learning not to leave the rifle elsewhere from a hunting perspective. A pistol in the tent is useless when you are at the stream getting water. Once you determine if he really wants a pistol for hunting, or if this is an excuse to get one, then you can make more credible choices- a .41-.44 mag is really not the best pistol choice except for handgun hunting or bear defense, and those are very limited circumstances.
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Re: hunting sidearm

Postby justinvan on Sun Feb 26, 2017 7:42 am

Primarily used for protection from bear and 2 legged predators. Alot of his hunting is done with bow or black powder.

crbutler wrote:By wanting a sidearm for elk hunting, what does he mean?

Primary gun to hunt with?

Something to kill his horse if he's stuck in a stirrup and being dragged?

Something to finish off an elk?

Something to protect against bears while doing things with the rifle not in hand?

2 legged varmints?


The 1911 is really only practical for the last. Any auto pistol that has enough oomph for elk (or bears) is liable to be heavier than a comparable revolver, with the exception of some of the 10mm autos.

The horse thing needs to be a relatively powerful gun, as would an elk hunting gun. Down side is these tend to be bigger and heavier. .41 or .44 mags, or a .45 colt with heavy bullets. A .357 would do in a pinch for the horse, and is fine for finishing off a wounded animal, but a little light for a primary hunting gun on elk. For the horse bit, an auto is not a good choice as the bouncing and whatnot could well get it out of battery.

If you are hunting with a rifle, the pistol really is just added weight unless you are the type of guy who gets more than a step from your rifle a lot. Like while getting fire wood or hauling stuff around or packing out. It can be useful, but I found pretty quickly it was easier to keep the rifle at hand than to pack another 2 to 3 pounds of handgun around all the time. I ended up buying a S&W 329 scandium .44 mag and still thought it easier to keep the rifle around than having both all the time, but I was not horse back hunting (Alaska and bear territory). An elk rifle has it all over any pistol for stopping an upset bear.

As to the .44 for other shooting, you can do like you were saying with the .357; get some .44 special ammo for situations that don't require the full power loads, a .44 mag is a pussycat with .44 special ammo.

The places I have been around elk there have been black bears, which are really not that much of a problem, and a .357 is enough gun for them. It is not really enough for Grizzly or Brown bear, although Phil Shoemaker (a well known bear guide) took a big brownie out with a 9mm a year or two back when it was all he had while with some fishing clients. If his heart is on an auto, a Glock 20 (or one of the subcompact versions-which are quite unpleasant to shoot with full power ammo) 10mm is really his only choice for that unless he wants something that will approximate the weight of his hunting rifle. (a steel 10 mm is a fun pistol, but they weigh a bit)-

The point being is unless he is going to commit to always wearing the handgun, he's better off just sticking to learning not to leave the rifle elsewhere from a hunting perspective. A pistol in the tent is useless when you are at the stream getting water. Once you determine if he really wants a pistol for hunting, or if this is an excuse to get one, then you can make more credible choices- a .41-.44 mag is really not the best pistol choice except for handgun hunting or bear defense, and those are very limited circumstances.
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Re: hunting sidearm

Postby MJY65 on Sun Feb 26, 2017 7:53 am

justinvan wrote:Primarily used for protection from bear and 2 legged predators. Alot of his hunting is done with bow or black powder.


In that case, a .357 mag with 180 hard cast bullets or 44Mag. Either with 4" barrel.
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Re: hunting sidearm

Postby goalie on Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:28 am

Full sized Glock 10mm or 4" Ruger GP 100 357 magnum revolver.

Those would be my choices for what you described, and I would go with the Glock.
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Re: hunting sidearm

Postby justinvan on Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:13 pm

I was also thinking the GP100...just wasnt super sure of my own thought process. I like the Ruger because its HD enough to handle the HOT .357 loads, can shoot light .38(this will make it more enjoyable for him to shoot recreationally and stay more proficient) and has a good price point.


goalie wrote:Full sized Glock 10mm or 4" Ruger GP 100 357 magnum revolver.

Those would be my choices for what you described, and I would go with the Glock.
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Re: hunting sidearm

Postby smurfman on Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:28 pm

If hunting in grizzly country, I would pick a sturdy 357 mag or a 10mm of some sort using the Buffalo Bore Bear Rounds at a minimum. These are hard cast lead and are designed for maximum penetration. I shot one of the 180 gr 357 rounds into a 240# black bear from the front and it was found against the rear hip on the opposite side. I suspect the 10mm rounds will do the same. I would probably prefer something bigger but right now I am still recovering from an injury to my thumb and shooting something with more recoil is painful.

Buffalo Bore is what Shoemaker was loaded with when he ran into the grizzly mentioned earlier. It was not his first choice but it was something he was pretty sure would work. It helps that he is very experienced around grizzlies and was able to keep cool in a very stressful situation.


For black bears I wouldn't worry much about them. The above suggestion will work fine as they tend to clear out even if there is food available. I shot my first black bear with a K frame 357 using standard factory 158 gr Semi-Jacketed Soft Points and they had more than adequate penetration on a 200# bear. I often carry a 40 S&W with 180 gr Wolf steel case when checking my bait pits as it should work on a bear if the extremely rare circumstance of an attack should happen. It will also be at least adequate for the much more likely scenario of running into a problem child whom are not uncommon in my hunting area. As I am not overly concerned about a black bear attack, I would gear more towards standard two legged predators in my carry choice with a change of ammo to something with greater penetration.
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Re: hunting sidearm

Postby crbutler on Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:33 pm

For what you are saying, a .357 is more than adequate as long as you are talking about black bear. I am inclined to the S&W guns because they are lighter, and thus more likely to be carried. For black bear, you don't need to run the hot loads, just use a good heavy hard cast bullet for penetration and he will kill them if he hits them right.

If you do a lot around Yellowstone, maybe the .44, but that is the only place with grizzly near elk hunting where you won't be with a guide. The Ruger red hawk isn't a bad choice if you want to go to .44, either, but it's heavier.
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Re: hunting sidearm

Postby fjrdc on Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:23 pm

Ruger GP100 .44 Special reviews give it 2 thumbs up !
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Re: hunting sidearm

Postby photogpat on Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:50 pm

Glock 29 loaded with 200gr hard cast. Buy the extended barrel from Lone Wolf and use an G20 15rd mag.

Horsed to 41 magnum power with 16 rounds on tap is nothing to sneeze at.
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