effendude wrote:I apologize to anyone I incorrectly called a Poser. We are all experts in range design and construction, range operation and the safe use of firearms. What some here don't understand is that most rages operate under a Conditional Use Permit granted by a governing agency. This means the permit is granted based on conditions agreed to by both parties. I know "safe operation" is usually the first condition of such a permit. The governing agency needs no laws to revoke such a permit, only the concern for public safety, no matter how that is construed. Without a CUP, you have a nice property where people can gather and talk about when they used to shoot.
The attitude implied with the first post using the word "allegedly" got me going. Del-Luth didn't dispute what happened. There was no "allegedly" in their defense. You can only show up with envelopes of cash so many times. If you were not at the meeting at Sherburne county where the information was presented by both the NRA Range Engineer as well as the county, you did not see the attitude displayed by some with regards to the situation. An above post also implied the Range Engineer's report wassThere was even a guy who implied that the incident was staged by the property owner to get Del-Luth shut down. He wanted to see the medical reports as he disputed that the woman was hit by a bullet. He didn't seem to care about the previous 20-some other bullet strikes. There was a fairly large portion of the audience who didn't care what happend at all, they just wanted their range to be open again. There was some whispered name calling, mis-information spead, all directed at the property owner down range. This didn't go unnoticed by the more reasonable members of the audience.
I have several points all range users should consider:
1) When was the last gun range constructed here in MN, and how about one close to the metro area?
2) If a range is not constructed to the current NRA standards, what defense will it have if a round does leave?
3) If a facility doesn't make every reasonable effort to keep all rounds fired on its property, through construction, procedures/policies, and controlling shooter behavior and performance, it will be closed.
4) If Del-Luth was in Hennepin or Ramsey county, would it be allowed to reopen?
5) Anyone who thinks it is a government agency's responsibility to limit development around a gun range with a 3-4 mile radius should pull their head....
6) Every shooter must be aware that every round they fire at any range must remain on the range or they risk getting the range closed. There is no safe zone beyond any ranges berms.
Some notes.......
We are all experts in range design and construction, range operation and the safe use of firearms.
Sarcasm detracts from your points......some here are more qualified than might be assumed. I for example have my own copy of the NRA range source book.
Del-Luth didn't dispute what happened. There was no "allegedly" in their defense.
So you would have us believe they offered themselves up and stated unequivocally that they were at fault.....hard to believe that their attorney would allow that to happen. I was not at the meeting but find this allegation to be suspect.
You can only show up with envelopes of cash so many times
You can substantiate this?
....you did not see the attitude displayed by some with regards to the situation.
What was the attitude and who displayed it? Owners/mgmt/customers?
...implied that the incident was staged by the property owner to get Del-Luth shut down.
Certainly within the realm of possibility. I believe there was a considerable time lag (days/weeks?) between the injury and the classification that it came from a bullet. This would certainly be cause for skepticism.
He didn't seem to care about the previous 20-some other bullet strikes.
Were these bullet strikes all on the same property? More information needed.
Regarding bullets out of the range......
This range is in a rural setting where hunting and target shooting is allow on neighboring properties. Any range in this environment would automatically be blamed and there have been inconclusive investigation. Maybe the woman was struck by a bullet, maybe it came from Del tone..........maybe it came from another area.
Ballistics, trajectories, angle of inclination all play a part. Where are the specifics?
From the 8 page report by the engineering firm:
As far back as 2004, there have been complaints of the failure of projectile containment filed with both Sherburne County and the adjacent Benton County Law Enforcement. The complaints claimed that bullets were hitting adjacent property and the complainants claimed they probably came from Del-Tone/Luth Gun Range. Mr. Luth denies this possibility, claiming that there is frequently heard the sound of gunfire coming from other adjacent properties that are probably the source of the damage claims. The adjacent land consists of large acreages of wetland, undeveloped woodland and a few scattered residences and small light industrial acreages. There has been extensive investigation of this matter in the past by both adjacent counties, but to this date, no confirming evidence has determined that the bullets found on the property due north about 927 yards distant, and the other sites, were from the Del- Tone ranges and originated from them.
So how about some information to support the items I have questioned above. Rather than just throwing out statements which may be just your opinions or biases or repeats of other conversations provide some detail.
While I am wholeheartedly distressed at the situation I find it interesting that some folks in the shooting community would not keep more of an open mind and demand proof of the allegations before condemning the range. Anyone involved in an outdoor range operation
that has any blue sky or average containment systems may find them in the same situation.
So what have you done to help?
Disclosure .........
I am an NRA Training Counselor/Instructor and Chief Range Safety Officer. I also serve on the Board of Directors as Safety Director for a metro area club. I have been assisting Del Tone whenever/where ever I can.
