Oakdale Thursday USPSA League

[SkyRock]

Oh, and a thought regarding the RO being able to see the holstering process: just have the shooter rotate 60 degrees toward their strong hand. They won't violate the 180 and you'll be able to see everything they're doing without putting yourself in harm's way. Doesn't help on the draw, I know, but at least it helps with what's arguably the largest safety concern of the whole process.

We could do that, but I'm not comfortable requiring the some shooters to do something "different" while not others. Worth considering, though. Hmmm...

When I started this game, the "name" shooters were all using cross-draw rigs, which could be used either cross-draw, or with a radical muzzle forward cant. Seems to me these aren't allowed anymore. [Don't have the rules in front of me. If someone can find a reference to this, please tell me at the next match.]

I've discouraged the use of appendix holsters in the Winter League matches, but now you've got me thinking... [Drat! I hate that! ]

[andrewP]

...You guys seem to be saying that you're ok with someone holstering a hot gun AIWB as long as you're not watching, but you're not ok with it when you're there....

BEEP! WRONG!

The RO by your shoulder is watching your gun! I say again, The RO by your shoulder is watching your gun! If he can't see your gun, it is not OK!

We can't see your trigger finger when you are reholstering after making ready, if you're using an appendix holster. You could be the safest person on the planet, but we need to see what you're doing! The RO is there to make sure you don't do something unsafe, to you, to the RO, to the spectators, to the person on the other side of the wall, down the street...you get the idea.

If we can't see it, we don't know if you are safe or not, but we must assume you aren't.

The post immediately after the one you quoted addresses this concern.

[SkyRock]

...You guys seem to be saying that you're ok with someone holstering a hot gun AIWB as long as you're not watching, but you're not ok with it when you're there....

BEEP! WRONG!

The RO by your shoulder is watching your gun! I say again, The RO by your shoulder is watching your gun! If he can't see your gun, it is not OK!

We can't see your trigger finger when you are reholstering after making ready, if you're using an appendix holster. You could be the safest person on the planet, but we need to see what you're doing! The RO is there to make sure you don't do something unsafe, to you, to the RO, to the spectators, to the person on the other side of the wall, down the street...you get the idea.

If we can't see it, we don't know if you are safe or not, but we must assume you aren't.

The post immediately after the one you quoted addresses this concern.

So I noticed.

[jonahk]

Oh, and a thought regarding the RO being able to see the holstering process: just have the shooter rotate 60 degrees toward their strong hand. They won't violate the 180 and you'll be able to see everything they're doing without putting yourself in harm's way. Doesn't help on the draw, I know, but at least it helps with what's arguably the largest safety concern of the whole process.

I guess I'm missing your overall point here. Devil's advocate or not, why would someone intentionally choose a setup that requires that much additional attention and at that much higher risk of getting DQ'd or worse? Remember a shooter would have to turn slightly on the draw as well to make sure they don't 180. If the goal is to practice how you regularly carry, you're going to develop a draw habit within the USPSA rules that will get you killed on the street (or something).

Also you've got the dangerous part backwards; I'm MUCH more concerned about someone ND'ing and or muzzling the rest of the squad on the draw with AIWB vs holstering a weapon that I have with my own eyes verified is unloaded and clear.

Certainly a topic of conversation when we're setting up stages this week!

[jonahk]

How do you handle the timer for a low ready start? Add time? How much? I draw really slow -- I need to figure out if Id be better off starting from low ready

For you? I'll just add 30 seconds and call it a day

However, technically I don't believe a low ready start is legal in a USPSA stage unless specified in the stage description. Oakdale being the n00b-friendly (yet safe) environment that it is, should just require a quick convo with Mike or Joe to make sure they would allow it and I don't believe they would add time. I recall this happening at least twice last year.

Besides - drawing slow means you just aren't practicing enough

[Ron Burgundy]

Bah, practice? I thought that is what matches are for?

LumberZach - I hope our tangent didn't discourage you. While an appendix rig might be comfortable for EDC, I think you'll find it isn't very convenient for a match. I encourage you to borrow an outside the waistband holster for a match. After that, you'll be hooked and want to go buy a bunch of gamer gear!

[andrewP]

So I noticed.

Apologies; we must have been writing simultaneously last night.

[andrewP]

Oh, and a thought regarding the RO being able to see the holstering process: just have the shooter rotate 60 degrees toward their strong hand. They won't violate the 180 and you'll be able to see everything they're doing without putting yourself in harm's way. Doesn't help on the draw, I know, but at least it helps with what's arguably the largest safety concern of the whole process.

I guess I'm missing your overall point here. Devil's advocate or not, why would someone intentionally choose a setup that requires that much additional attention and at that much higher risk of getting DQ'd or worse? Remember a shooter would have to turn slightly on the draw as well to make sure they don't 180. If the goal is to practice how you regularly carry, you're going to develop a draw habit within the USPSA rules that will get you killed on the street (or something).

Also you've got the dangerous part backwards; I'm MUCH more concerned about someone ND'ing and or muzzling the rest of the squad on the draw with AIWB vs holstering a weapon that I have with my own eyes verified is unloaded and clear.

Certainly a topic of conversation when we're setting up stages this week!

I think we might be talking past each other regarding the 180 concerns. It will be a good topic during stage setup, as we'll be able to physically demonstrate what we mean, rather than having to hope our meaning comes through clearly in text. My 180 concern was only regarding turning far enough to let the RO see what you're doing following the "load and make ready" command, but not so far that you break the 180; I'm not sure I understand how there's a 180 concern when drawing from AIWB. Admittedly, it's not something I've trained with, but all the reading I've done on it has led me to believe that it's pretty much straight up and out, so I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around how it could cause a 180 violation.

[andrewP]

Oh, and a thought regarding the RO being able to see the holstering process: just have the shooter rotate 60 degrees toward their strong hand. They won't violate the 180 and you'll be able to see everything they're doing without putting yourself in harm's way. Doesn't help on the draw, I know, but at least it helps with what's arguably the largest safety concern of the whole process.

We could do that, but I'm not comfortable requiring the some shooters to do something "different" while not others. Worth considering, though. Hmmm...

When I started this game, the "name" shooters were all using cross-draw rigs, which could be used either cross-draw, or with a radical muzzle forward cant. Seems to me these aren't allowed anymore. [Don't have the rules in front of me. If someone can find a reference to this, please tell me at the next match.]

I've discouraged the use of appendix holsters in the Winter League matches, but now you've got me thinking... [Drat! I hate that! ]

I guess if it were me with the appendix holster, I'd be willing to do something "different" in order to be allowed to use it vs being told "your gear isn't welcome here." If I've caused some thinking, then I guess that devil's advocate mission has been a success. Hopefully I didn't cause too much frustration/gnashing of teeth/etc.

[jonahk]

I guess if it were me with the appendix holster, I'd be willing to do something "different" in order to be allowed to use it vs being told "your gear isn't welcome here." If I've caused some thinking, then I guess that devil's advocate mission has been a success. Hopefully I didn't cause too much frustration/gnashing of teeth/etc.

No gnashing of teeth here. I think what you are seeing are honest responses to a very valid question.

In my two years of shooting almost every single Oakdale match, I've never heard someone say "your gear isn't welcome here". Instead there are helpful suggestions from the RO's, coaching on safety, and tips on next steps if you want to take things to the next level. If you show up tomorrow with an AIWB holster, I'm not going to send you home but you will get extra attention from me, John, Mike, and anyone else who may be RO'ing at the time. Whether or not you see that extra attention as a bad thing is on you

[andrewP]

I guess if it were me with the appendix holster, I'd be willing to do something "different" in order to be allowed to use it vs being told "your gear isn't welcome here." If I've caused some thinking, then I guess that devil's advocate mission has been a success. Hopefully I didn't cause too much frustration/gnashing of teeth/etc.

No gnashing of teeth here. I think what you are seeing are honest responses to a very valid question.

That's a relief; I'm glad we've been able to have this discussion, and even more glad that I didn't send us completely off the rails.

In my two years of shooting almost every single Oakdale match, I've never heard someone say "your gear isn't welcome here". Instead there are helpful suggestions from the RO's, coaching on safety, and tips on next steps if you want to take things to the next level. If you show up tomorrow with an AIWB holster, I'm not going to send you home but you will get extra attention from me, John, Mike, and anyone else who may be RO'ing at the time. Whether or not you see that extra attention as a bad thing is on you

Your experience at Oakdale mirrors mine. Everybody was friendly and supportive when I was new, and people continue to offer helpful advice to this day. For example, I love that John C is willing to talk to me about stage strategy, even though I'm not anywhere near his skill level, and that Larry offered me some advice about reloads that I'm really trying to remember to make use of. It truly is an excellent group of people to spend time with.

[SkyRock]

This week's match is the last one where you can earn a score for the season. Y'all make sure you don't miss it.

However, we aren't done yet. Although the next Thursday night, 8/14, is Trophy night, we're still having a four-stage match, but with two classifiers, not just one.

So, even if you feel you aren't getting an award for the season (and you might be suprised), you can still improve your USPSA classifier scores.

Hope to see you at both matches.

[jonahk]

Huge thanks to Mike and Joe for a fun season!

[mayhem83]

Please forgive the newb question. Is there a way to see results?

Nevermind, I found them.

BTW, Thanks to everyone that helped me through my first USPSA match.

[andrewP]

Huge thanks to Mike and Joe for a fun season!

Indeed. I always wish it could go longer. Stupid sun having to drop below the horizon earlier and earlier as the summer goes on.