How do other clubs deal with members shooting everything up?

[yuppiejr]

While Beaverbrook is a members-only range, security is pretty much an honor system affair. The gate and warming shack entrances are controlled by a common 4-digit pin code that changes every 12 months. All it takes is one member deciding to share their membership with friends & family and who knows how many folks are using the facility.

Improvement #1 I'd make to the club at this point would be the installation of an automatic gate with a keycard/PIN pad access mechanism to enter or leave the facility (same setup that most storage units use). Instead of a common shared access code each member should have their own unique code allowing time/date stamping of when their ID was used to enter or exit the facility.

If you implement regular walk through and equipment inspections to log time/date ranges when damage occurs you could begin to correlate which members are on site when things get shot to hell and have a list of legitimate suspects rather than the entire club membership.

[maddhunter]

That idea has been brought up more than one time at club meetings. Tough to spend the money when other projects need to be done. All a matter of priorities.

[gman1868]

I don't think that was a club issue, but trespassers. I believe there were also bottles and beer cans around and the deputy who responded said suspects were likely high school kids. We formally report trespassers at our club, which is not Beaverbrook, and warn them that the sheriff will notified that they were on our property. So far, no damage from them...

I was not aware of that. Thank you for the clarification

[yuppiejr]

I dunno, I've been bringing my own target holders for quite a while when I shoot at Beaverbrook and never really felt it was the club's responsibility to provide this consumable for my use even though I pay my $1 per trip to cover the cost to maintain the club's stock.

Why not scrap the $1 per use for members fee and simply start renting and-or selling portable free-standing target frames at the clubhouse for those that don't choose to bring their own?

[westberg]

The unfortunate truth is private or member gun clubs worst problem area is its few members who don't follow the rules. Then everybody gets punished by new rules which the original rule breakers won't follow anyway. We have and still are considering electronic gates with unique ID's per member and RO's on duty daily. Any of you retired folks want to park a camper on site and be a greeter, let me know.

[AFTERMATH]

I dunno, I've been bringing my own target holders for quite a while when I shoot at Beaverbrook and never really felt it was the club's responsibility to provide this consumable for my use even though I pay my $1 per trip to cover the cost to maintain the club's stock.

If the target holder is a consumable, you're doing it wrong!


"Members" trashing the range seems to be an unfortunately common issue. I've been relatively invested in Hinckley Conservation Clubs range and it gets absolutely trashed on a regular basis. For the most part it's not members - it's too easy to walk around the gate. In fact, that's what's expected of members.

There was a time, when it was a little better but the solution to eliminated this bungholes is not an easy one. In my calculated opinion these are some measures that can help eliminate vandalism.

1) Keep the range neat and clean - on a very regular basis. It's human nature, people are less likely to create a mess but more likely to add to it. So if they see no one else treats the facilities with respect, they will follow suit. Keeping everything nice will mean the more decent people are gonna clean up after themselves.

2) Providing some sort of target backer, will minimize the peoples felt obligation to provide their own donation to the range. Often times these charitable contributions tend to take the form of something that would otherwise be considered trash. It's fine and dandy if folks want to bring a screen door out to post their targets on - but when they leave it behind, the next person sees trash. See #1 above..."

-Sure, they'll shoot up the backers/posts, but at least in the beginning, it's because they can't shoot - Send 'em to an Appleseed to learn how. Maybe they'll pick up a conscience there as well.

3) Allow members to drive at least close to the firing line. They're more likely to bring their trash back with 'em if they don't have to haul it, and their gear, back 200yrds.

4) Create some means of vetting membership - have a regular class/lecture on range etiquette and make it mandatory for new members. Here you can instill the concepts of respect and the importance of keeping their access code/key/etc... under their own control.

5) Increase range usage/flow. The more often you have responsible members there, the less likely the hooligans will show up.

These are the low cost steps to improve the situation - though they might be heavier on volunteer hours.

[benny]

Beaverbrook tries to keep things clean, picked up and to keep useable target stands available. They put up small storage sheds to hold the stands in, they had the Boy scouts build portable benches as a scouting project, they have several members who are out at the club often who make patrols around the property to look for issues, they have looked at camera and electric code passing gates , they even are trying new ways to give members a target posting system that can be replaced easy.
Problem is the gates and cameras require internet or some sort of monitoring either passive or active which cost money, the wood target frames are being shot up faster than they can get volunteer members to build them, the new target systems are getting shot up before many members really get to use them, having a full time RSO or manager cost money or a volunteers who has to be dedicated.

The top wire on that bay had been shot in three spots and there were several tears and holes on the snow fence along the top and bottom where it sure looks like some one was trying to hit the wire.
I personaly think it is who isn't a member or a former member who is angry about some thing out there and has been getting the gate combo then shooting stuff up. Or it is members who forget to bring targets so they just shoot what ever they see down range.

Even the coffee maker from inside the range building got shot and put back in the building with three or four holes in it.

Benny

[hard h2o]

At OGC it is explained to new members that each one of us is an RSO. No need to hire RSOs when, just by stepping on the property you become one and have the responsibility as such.

Being a member you are part owner as well.

It is stressed that there are locals who would like nothing better than to shut us down. Everyone is on their best behavior.

I haven't been a member long but from what I have seen and heard they take the club rules seriously and will boot you for infractions. Bylaws are distributed and available on the website.

Even so we have cameras on each range.

From what I have seen OGC members really take a sense of ownership for the ranges and property.

The keycard at the gate that logs comings and goings also makes it less likely that a member would damage or vandalize the property.

[benny]

was out to bEAVERBrook shooting trap tonight, went down to check the pistol bays, Sure enough the middle bay now has no wire holding up the snow fence. Some one shot it in three sections and left them laying all over the bay.

THEY NEW THEY HAD SHOT THE WIRE!!!!

Benny

[westberg]

was out to bEAVERBrook shooting trap tonight, went down to check the pistol bays, Sure enough the middle bay now has no wire holding up the snow fence. Some one shot it in three sections and left them laying all over the bay.

THEY NEW THEY HAD SHOT THE WIRE!!!!

Benny

Are the target holder fencing temporary or perament in the pistol bays? If perament just wondering how that will affect IDPA matches next season.

[yuppiejr]

Beaverbrook tries to keep things clean, picked up and to keep useable target stands available. They put up small storage sheds to hold the stands in, they had the Boy scouts build portable benches as a scouting project, they have several members who are out at the club often who make patrols around the property to look for issues, they have looked at camera and electric code passing gates , they even are trying new ways to give members a target posting system that can be replaced easy.
Problem is the gates and cameras require internet or some sort of monitoring either passive or active which cost money, the wood target frames are being shot up faster than they can get volunteer members to build them, the new target systems are getting shot up before many members really get to use them, having a full time RSO or manager cost money or a volunteers who has to be dedicated.

The top wire on that bay had been shot in three spots and there were several tears and holes on the snow fence along the top and bottom where it sure looks like some one was trying to hit the wire.
I personaly think it is who isn't a member or a former member who is angry about some thing out there and has been getting the gate combo then shooting stuff up. Or it is members who forget to bring targets so they just shoot what ever they see down range.

Even the coffee maker from inside the range building got shot and put back in the building with three or four holes in it.

Benny

There's no free/cheap way to fix the problem, the club clearly has a problem with historical lack of investment in security infrastructure and if the club does not want to increase membership dues it's going to have to figure out how to balance member access to the range against revenue generating activities (range rental for classes/activities) that make up the difference.

One option that wouldn't cost the club a dime - quit prorating membership fees for people who volunteer 8 hours a year, and instead make a minimum of 8 work hours (cleanup, working events, or serving as an RSO in the rifle-pistol bays) mandatory each calendar year a condition of membership.

[xd ED]

Beaverbrook tries to keep things clean, picked up and to keep useable target stands available. They put up small storage sheds to hold the stands in, they had the Boy scouts build portable benches as a scouting project, they have several members who are out at the club often who make patrols around the property to look for issues, they have looked at camera and electric code passing gates , they even are trying new ways to give members a target posting system that can be replaced easy.
Problem is the gates and cameras require internet or some sort of monitoring either passive or active which cost money, the wood target frames are being shot up faster than they can get volunteer members to build them, the new target systems are getting shot up before many members really get to use them, having a full time RSO or manager cost money or a volunteers who has to be dedicated.

The top wire on that bay had been shot in three spots and there were several tears and holes on the snow fence along the top and bottom where it sure looks like some one was trying to hit the wire.
I personaly think it is who isn't a member or a former member who is angry about some thing out there and has been getting the gate combo then shooting stuff up. Or it is members who forget to bring targets so they just shoot what ever they see down range.

Even the coffee maker from inside the range building got shot and put back in the building with three or four holes in it.

Benny

There's no free/cheap way to fix the problem, the club clearly has a problem with historical lack of investment in security infrastructure and if the club does not want to increase membership dues it's going to have to figure out how to balance member access to the range against revenue generating activities (range rental for classes/activities) that make up the difference.

One option that wouldn't cost the club a dime - quit prorating membership fees for people who volunteer 8 hours a year, and instead make a minimum of 8 work hours (cleanup, working events, or serving as an RSO in the rifle-pistol bays) mandatory each calendar year a condition of membership.

The mandatory service hours is an excellent idea, assuming there is work to be found( I have no idea the number of members at BeaverBrook/ hours of work needed annually)
Mandated service hours keeps the 'less-than-enthusiastic' out of Oakdale. And while that wouldn't keep out the trespassers, name tag/ assess cards visibly worn would help.

[yuppiejr]

The mandatory service hours is an excellent idea, assuming there is work to be found( I have no idea the number of members at BeaverBrook/ hours of work needed annually)
Mandated service hours keeps the 'less-than-enthusiastic' out of Oakdale. And while that wouldn't keep out the trespassers, name tag/ assess cards visibly worn would help.

If the last newsletter is indication (the "apathy" issue) there are a few doing most of the heavy lifting when it comes to volunteer time investment in the club but no practical changes planned to address the issue. There's more work to do than people volunteering to do it at the moment (target repair, range cleanup), and jobs that need to be done that haven't before (range safety officer on the rifle-pistol side, random security patrols)...

For comparison, here is a quick summary of the initial fees, ongoing membership dues and work requirements for other clubs on the north side of town that have shotgun, rifle (100 yard or longer range) and a pistol-rimfire range.. forgive any errors, working off of what's available on their public websites:


Elk River charges $150 to join, plus $150 in dues the first year - and then $150 per year, minus $50 with an 8 hour work credit. All members are required to work *2* Range Attendant shifts (clubhouse or safety patrols) which do not count toward the 8 hour discount work credit. No public hours beyond rifle sight-in and events.

Forest Lake requires a $526 investment to become a member which gets you a share of stock each in the two corporations that own the club, plus $175 a year in membership dues minus $100 if you work 16 hours in the year. No public hours beyond rifle sight-in and events/classes.

Oakdale Gun Club is $190 the first year, $90 thereafter with a 16 work hour requirement each year. Regular public hours Saturday and Sundays during the summer plus rifle sight-in & events.

Bald Eagle Sportsmans (Hugo) is $100 for a new member, plus $75 a year in dues and an 8 hour work requirement per member/year. They also have public hours on Saturdays April through October.

Beaverbrook is $40 to join, plus $130 per year with an optional $50 work credit toward the following year's dues, but no work requirement for each member. $1 fee per trip to use the rifle range ($5 for guests, up to 2 guest per member per trip). No public hours beyond rifle sight-in or events.


Most of the other ranges require a larger up-front membership investment stake, an ongoing work requirement, or both... So far it doesn't sound like OGC has the same sort of vandalism issues, I'm curious if members of the other clubs identified above have noted a similar absence of blown up targets & coffee makers?

[andrewP]

Bald Eagle Sportsmans (Hugo) is $100 for a new member, plus $75 a year in dues and an 8 hour work requirement per member/year. They also have public hours on Saturdays April through October.

Most of the other ranges require a larger up-front membership investment stake, an ongoing work requirement, or both... So far it doesn't sound like OGC has the same sort of vandalism issues, I'm curious if members of the other clubs identified above have noted a similar absence of blown up targets & coffee makers?

Your info on BESA membership pricing is accurate. We do see some shot up target stands and holes in the ceilings of the range covers, especially on the 25 yard. Usually when I'm out there, I don't run into a lot of blown up junk, though, so I guess we're somewhere in between. The shot up target stands indicate that there are some members who exhibit a lack of respect for club property (the wheels of a target stand don't generally acquire .223 caliber holes by accident, for example), but this spring, the club installed a controlled access gate that logs who comes in, similar to OGC's, so it should be a lot easier to identify and deal with those "problem" members going forward.

[benny]

was out to bEAVERBrook shooting trap tonight, went down to check the pistol bays, Sure enough the middle bay now has no wire holding up the snow fence. Some one shot it in three sections and left them laying all over the bay.

THEY NEW THEY HAD SHOT THE WIRE!!!!

Benny

Are the target holder fencing temporary or perament in the pistol bays? If perament just wondering how that will affect IDPA matches next season.

The new snow fence target holding system is permanent but should not interrupt the IDPA group as they set their own target stands. The only thing I have to ask them is to make sure their targets are not lined up with the 4 x 4 poles. The fencing will be fine, so long as they or any one else for that matter don't blast it with a shotgun and bird shot up close.

BB does have a 10 hour work credit requirement if you want the $50 credit, but no mandatory work requirements . The rifle ranges get the most volunteers because the membership is about 90% rifle/pistol shooters but there are a few who strictly shoot trap and skeet.

We have now bought and installed cameras and a receiver to hide through out the ranges, we will find out who is doing the vandalism very shortly. A card reader at the gate will take a vote by the board to approve the cash to get it up and working due to the cost. The cameras were cheap so they were bought and will be installed by this weekend.

So the next time your out at the club, remember to smile for the camera's!!!!

I think they will revisit the motion to hire a manager full time as well, the new bays when done will need to show revenue and a ROI so that means opening up to the public for a certain amount of time during the year beyond the deer rifle sight in.

Benny