Oakdale Gun Club "OGC" Closure

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Re: Oakdale Gun Club "OGC" Closure

Postby Rip Van Winkle on Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:29 am

ttousi wrote:
Rip Van Winkle wrote:Just an observation from one whose on the outside looking in.

If you don't know where your club's money is going, you'd better find out.


From the April newsletter

Neil: Projects for 2020 was presented for a membership blanket approval. This was compiled by the Board. We have X-amount of money to spend for these projects. We will discuss these projects as listed below and complete the meeting by 7:45 PM tonight. ADA compliance projects: Contacted a couple of firms to determine what we need to do for compliance. Drainage problems. Getting assessment by an engineering consulting firm and will be dealing with the drainage on the entire ranges. Grading and back fill as required for drainage.New roof on the 25 yard range.Safety required on Trap House #1.Road and parking lot upgrades.We have approximately $180,000 for these improvements this year per Bill.

Discussion followed on the different projects with questions and comments by members. One member asked about the finances of the club which was answered by Bill. The member was adamant about the spending of the club. We are still in debt with the construction we did on the 100yd range. After discussion, a motion was made and seconded for a blanket approval vote on the project listed that will be addressed in the order above. The Majority of members voted Aye for blanket approval of the above projects with 1 member opposed.

That makes it sound like the board spends the club's money with a wink and nudge.

Can any member see the actual budget?
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Re: Oakdale Gun Club "OGC" Closure

Postby Holland&Holland on Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:24 am

To be fair it was a vote at a member meeting so it was not just the board spending the money.
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Re: Oakdale Gun Club "OGC" Closure

Postby bstrawse on Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:12 am

Holland&Holland wrote:
They took out a massive loan that they are still paying on


The loan was well within the CLub's ability to manage through free cash flow at the time -- I'm not sure how that's evolved since I left the board.

The loan and project were discussed in detail at a special member meeting of the club and were approved during that meeting. That meeting was packed and held off-site to accommodate the audience.

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Re: Oakdale Gun Club "OGC" Closure

Postby bstrawse on Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:16 am

Rip Van Winkle wrote:That makes it sound like the board spends the club's money with a wink and nudge.

Can any member see the actual budget?


Any member of the club can ask to see the financial records. When I was a member (prior to being a board member), I made a request to the Treasurer (Bill, even back then) and he sent me the balance sheet and prior year's P&L and offered to meet with me any time to go through any details I wanted to know.

MN statutes for the governance of a non-profit makes the records available at any time to a member. Don't be afraid to ask for them.

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Re: Oakdale Gun Club "OGC" Closure

Postby ttousi on Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:16 am

Holland&Holland wrote:To be fair it was a vote at a member meeting so it was not just the board spending the money.



Member meetings are attended, at most, by 50 members

just saying
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Re: Oakdale Gun Club "OGC" Closure

Postby jdege on Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:43 am

ttousi wrote:
Holland&Holland wrote:To be fair it was a vote at a member meeting so it was not just the board spending the money.



Member meetings are attended, at most, by 50 members

just saying


If you care, and didn't attend, it's your own fault.
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Re: Oakdale Gun Club "OGC" Closure

Postby Bessy on Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:39 am

I'm currently on the board of Pine Island's sportsman's club.
In total we have

2 trap ranges,
7 25 yard bays, (1 with steel for pistol use)
3 additional bays, that we use mostly for large matches.
100 yard rifle range with 4 stations.
200 yard rifle range with 4 stations with steel.

Just for comparison's sake, we have about 650 members. We just raised our membership fee to 125$ a year. We needed money to purchase land to prevent encroachment from the local community, and we can't raise that money on fundraising alone.

We go over club finances every single monthly meeting, they are either given out as handouts, or projected up for everyone to see.

Every year we break our budget into various categories, a committee of members then prioritizes expenditures based on need. We use this as a guide for determine where to spend our money.

Our goal is for our members dues to provide us the capital to keep the lights on, fix and replace existing infrastructure and equipment, and help us ensure the clubs future with a capital expansion fund. Any extra's usually come from fundraising, additional member donations, and shooting leagues we host (Trap, USPSA, etc).

You would be surprised how expensive it is to simply keep a club up and running, It's a non trivial amount of money. OGC has a greater number of buildings, more infrastructure on their bays. I would not be surprised to find that their upkeep is 2 or 3 times as expensive as ours. If people have concerns about a lack of transparency, then ask to see the books....

I always find it curious how the people who complain the loudest are always the last to volunteer.
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Re: Oakdale Gun Club "OGC" Closure

Postby Holland&Holland on Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:51 am

ttousi wrote:
Holland&Holland wrote:To be fair it was a vote at a member meeting so it was not just the board spending the money.



Member meetings are attended, at most, by 50 members

just saying


Very true and that issue is an issue.
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Re: Oakdale Gun Club "OGC" Closure

Postby xd ED on Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:17 pm

Holland&Holland wrote:
ttousi wrote:
Holland&Holland wrote:To be fair it was a vote at a member meeting so it was not just the board spending the money.



Member meetings are attended, at most, by 50 members

just saying


Very true and that issue is an issue.


and then there's that one guy who shows up, starts asking questions that none of gang of 50 is interested in dealing with, and in a few months they're back to 50....
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Re: Oakdale Gun Club "OGC" Closure

Postby Holland&Holland on Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:19 pm

That is also true.
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Re: Oakdale Gun Club "OGC" Closure

Postby jdege on Tue Apr 07, 2020 12:26 pm

Bessy wrote:If people have concerns about a lack of transparency, then ask to see the books....

Personally, when I see vague statements of concern by people who haven't bothered themselves to look at the information that is openly available, I mostly ignore them.
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Re: Oakdale Gun Club "OGC" Closure

Postby Holland&Holland on Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:18 pm

jdege wrote:
Bessy wrote:If people have concerns about a lack of transparency, then ask to see the books....

Personally, when I see vague statements of concern by people who haven't bothered themselves to look at the information that is openly available, I mostly ignore them.


My concern is not with the books. Is with the attitude of the individuals we are discussing. I have experienced THAT personally.
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Re: Oakdale Gun Club "OGC" Closure

Postby Drizzle on Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:31 pm

I didn't see a functional scheduling website on the list of projects, and I remember seeing online scheduling would not be available again for 2020.

I used to work at a software design firm, and was asked informally to see if they would bid on designing a website and attached software for the club. The company usually dealt with 500k-1m projects, but agreed to look at the club needs at my request. They came up with about a 20k solution, which was declined by those responsible at the club as 'too expensive'.

I'm not sure if this was the fellow who later disappeared; this occurred around late 2016. I don't know if anyone has tried to find another firm to do website work, or to try to take an existing framework and do it themselves, but given the past problems with scheduling and the statement about the future, it doesn't seem to be a priority.

I realize this is somewhat unrelated to the closure, which I've already commented on. Having seen how long it takes to get functional toilets done (still waiting) and other projects funded (due to possible ADA lawsuits?) I unfortunately don't have much hope that OGC will have anything more functional than a clipboard for us to plan our service time, unless the future VP would like to be deluged with email requests.

All possible suggestions for solutions, other than 'build it yourself' are welcome. I was a salesman, not a programmer, and know nothing about website design.
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Re: Oakdale Gun Club "OGC" Closure

Postby Jackpine Savage on Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:25 pm

I certainly am glad that a benevolent dictator runs my range.
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Re: Oakdale Gun Club "OGC" Closure

Postby jdege on Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:43 pm

Drizzle wrote:They came up with about a 20k solution, which was declined by those responsible at the club as 'too expensive'.

:?:
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