Wisconsin Concealed Carry Class ONLINE!

[RobD]

Never Mind.

Why did you remove your initial complaint?

Did he give you a refund because you came online to air it out?

Just curious... many, myself included, warned instructors about offering "Wisconsin Approved" classes prior to DOJ releasing their rules... This is exactly why.

I hope you got everything straitened out, and I hope all the other students that were taken advantage of get a refund.

[Stradawhovious]

Just curious... many, myself included, warned instructors about offering "Wisconsin Approved" classes prior to DOJ releasing their rules... This is exactly why.

I hope you got everything straitened out, and I hope all the other students that were taken advantage of get a refund.

Seem to me doing something like this (highlighted above) would constitute an internet scam.

Just sayin'.

[MN PTCT]

Interesting. The last FAQ on page 8 of the new Department of Justice FAQ dated 10/20/2011http://www.doj.state.wi.us/dles/cib/ConcealedCarry/ccw-faq-20111020.pdf says

"Will an on-line training course satisfy the requirements to obtain a concealed carry permit?"
Answer "No."

[MN PTCT]

http://www.doj.state.wi.us/dles/cib/ConcealedCarry/ccw-faq-20111020.pdf

Interesting that Wisconsin will not recognize the Florida permit. Page 23 link shows:

Out-of-state Licenses Recognized in Wisconsin
Effective: 10-18-11
Arizona
Arkansas
California
Colorado
Connecticut
Georgia
Hawaii
Idaho
Iowa
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisiana
Maryland
Michigan
Minnesota
Nebraska
New York
North Carolina
North Dakota
Pennsylvania
Tennessee
Texas
Utah
Washington
Wyoming
Puerto Rico
U.S. Virgin Islands
Licensees from any of the listed states will be recognized in Wisconsin as an out-of-state licensee per Sec. 175.60 (1)(g) Wis. Stats. This was determined based on the statutory requirement in s. 165.25 (12) that the listed state requires, or designates that the holder chose to submit, to a background search that is comparable to Wisconsin’s background check in s. 175.60 (1)(ac). Wisconsin’s background check includes only two components (1) A criminal history record search; (2) A search of the national instant criminal background check system (NICS). If another states background check meets the same requirements a Wisconsin resident must meet, the DOJ has recognized that state. The DOJ has tried to be as inclusive as possible and will periodically check and update the list if other states can be added. This list is current as of 10/18/11.

[JoeH]

Interesting. The last FAQ on page 8 of the new Department of Justice FAQ dated 10/20/2011http://www.doj.state.wi.us/dles/cib/ConcealedCarry/ccw-faq-20111020.pdf says

"Will an on-line training course satisfy the requirements to obtain a concealed carry permit?"
Answer "No."

[shadeslanding]

Interesting. The last FAQ on page 8 of the new Department of Justice FAQ dated 10/20/2011http://www.doj.state.wi.us/dles/cib/ConcealedCarry/ccw-faq-20111020.pdf says

"Will an on-line training course satisfy the requirements to obtain a concealed carry permit?"
Answer "No."

Yep - they screwed us there yet they accept Maryland permits (they allow online training), Minnesota permits (again online training/range session is acceptable), they accept Colorado and Iowa where online courses are acceptable. They also accept MN DNR training as proof of a safety course and of course you can take the DNR course online. In fact their own lawyers maintain their bar status in part... through online courses.

So we have those in Wisconsin who took our online course coming to our November 1st IN PERSON class at the Oconomowoc Olympia Conference Center at no charge. Others who can't make that date can attend any of our in-person classes at NO CHARGE. It's pretty simple. What the DOJ take away - we give back. And we're offering the attendees Utah training with the WI course at no charge so they can apply for their UT permit (and others) if they so do desire.

GS

[Edit - and BTW we never claimed like others did that our course was "certified" by the DOJ. Only that we met the statutory requirements of the law as passed by the Wisconsin legislature. It takes bureaucrats to mess up a 20 page law (SB 35 as amended) with 41 pages of rules.]

[RobD]

[Edit - and BTW we never claimed like others did that our course was "certified" by the DOJ. Only that we met the statutory requirements of the law as passed by the Wisconsin legislature. It takes bureaucrats to mess up a 20 page law (SB 35 as amended) with 41 pages of rules.]

I'm sorry, but that is ********. When you sell a class as "Wisconsin Concealed Carry Class ONLINE!" people expect your class meets the requirements for that state. The fact that you jumped the gun, and tried to get ahead of the market, is your fault not the DOJ's, and not the customer's.

Why does a student need to take on the inconvenience of taking a Tuesday off work, lodging expenses, gas, food, travel expenses, etc.?

You rolled the dice, and lost... why make your students cover your bet?

[shadeslanding]

[Edit - and BTW we never claimed like others did that our course was "certified" by the DOJ. Only that we met the statutory requirements of the law as passed by the Wisconsin legislature. It takes bureaucrats to mess up a 20 page law (SB 35 as amended) with 41 pages of rules.]

I'm sorry, but that is ********. When you sell a class as "Wisconsin Concealed Carry Class ONLINE!" people expect your class meets the requirements for that state. The fact that you jumped the gun, and tried to get ahead of the market, is your fault not the DOJ's, and not the customer's.

Why does a student need to take on the inconvenience of taking a Tuesday off work, lodging expenses, gas, food, travel expenses, etc.?

You rolled the dice, and lost... why make your students cover your bet?

Get off your damn high horse Robd.

We did not roll the dice. Even the bills sponsor is pissed that the DOJ rewrote the law with their rules.

We're offering more than just the WI class as a way to make up for our customer's inconvenience. And they get the class for free.

The class (the online class) met every criteria of the Wisconsin Act 35 as passed by the legislature. It's the DOJ who has decided online training and only online training for their residents is NOT going to be approved. The online class again Robd met every criteria of the law AS PASSED by the legislature. When the DOJ published their rules, we pulled the course and offered a FREE class to our students PLUS the addition of Utah training.

And they don't have to take off work Robd - we're holding the class in the evening or did that escape those keen senses of yours? And we're bringing the course to them. Not the other way around.

Why you've even claimed in the past that you "know" me (it's on your blog) yet you and I have never met. How can you even claim that you know me when you don't? You might know OF me, but you certainly don't me and I was surprised you would make that claim. A bit hypocritical aren't you.

[RobD]

Get off your damn high horse Robd.

No High Horse here.... just high standards (which I highly recommend).

... a bunch of excuses..

Of course Gary... you selling a class that didn't provide the intended result is everyone else's fault but yours.

And they don't have to take off work Robd.

Unless people work at the Olympia Resort, I'm guessing some will have to take time off work to get there by 5PM.
And as predicted, you dodged the other questions, and focused on one thing that you had some excuse for. What about travel expenses, gas, food... You reimbursing for that? Instead you give them 1 day, in 1 city.

Wouldn't be simpler, (hey, maybe even just the right thing to do) to just give a refund to the students that wanted it? Many of the instructors here have a policy where they will give a refund (without certificate) if they felt like the class was not up to their expectations....

Why you've even claimed in the past that you "know" me...

I have met you twice.... and we rub shoulders with many of the same folks... The verb "to know" has several meanings... I'll let you try to figure out which was right in the context I said it:

transitive verb
1
a (1) : to perceive directly : have direct cognition of (2) : to have understanding of <importance of knowing oneself> (3) : to recognize the nature of : discern
b (1) : to recognize as being the same as something previously known (2) : to be acquainted or familiar with (3) : to have experience of
2
a : to be aware of the truth or factuality of : be convinced or certain of
b : to have a practical understanding of <knows how to write>
3
archaic : to have sexual intercourse with

A bit hypocritical aren't you.

I don't think so, but I defer to your vast experience in the matter.

[shadeslanding]

Get off your damn high horse Robd.

No High Horse here.... just high standards.

We have high standards Rob. And in many ways have set the standards by being the first to deliver innovative services that the market wants - such as being the first to deliver a true Multi-state course, and online delivery of lecture for firearms classes. And unlike other instructors who pass all students, we don't pass them all if they don't meet our standards.

If you want to criticize, then come take our class and see what it is we do. Otherwise you really have nothing to say about it do you? It's between me and my customers not you and me mister. You're picking a fight you don't even belong in. So why are you?

[mmcnx2]

Just curious... many, myself included, warned instructors about offering "Wisconsin Approved" classes prior to DOJ releasing their rules... This is exactly why.

I hope you got everything straitened out, and I hope all the other students that were taken advantage of get a refund.

Seem to me doing something like this (highlighted above) would constitute an internet scam.

Just sayin'.

+1

I lived about 2 miles out of Oconomowoc for a number of years it is the middle of no where. 45 minutes out of Milwaukee and Madison. 5pm not anyone with a job will make it without leaving early.

The reality if they jumped the gun and sold a product that does not meet the requirements...not only should those folks get a refund but should get something for having their time wasted taking the online course.

Just wish one of the burned knew a good lawyer.

[shadeslanding]

Just curious... many, myself included, warned instructors about offering "Wisconsin Approved" classes prior to DOJ releasing their rules... This is exactly why.

I hope you got everything straitened out, and I hope all the other students that were taken advantage of get a refund.

Seem to me doing something like this (highlighted above) would constitute an internet scam.

Just sayin'.

+1

I lived about 2 miles out of Oconomowoc for a number of years it is the middle of no where. 45 minutes out of Milwaukee and Madison. 5pm not anyone with a job will make it without leaving early.

The reality if they jumped the gun and sold a product that does not meet the requirements...not only should those folks get a refund but should get something for having their time wasted taking the online course.

Just wish one of the burned knew a good lawyer.

All of our students are quite happy with what we've offered them. Again - it really is none of your business is it? It's something we have made right with our customers. Not with you.

[ttousi]

nuff

ETA.......Unlocking due to complaints. Personal attacks will be dealt with by the other mods since folks think I am biased. Have at it