Recommended shooting instructor

[farmerj]

I went to a DonL class two summers ago. He couldn't break me of my modified Weaver stance. And Lord knows, we worked at it.

Don hasn't gone after my modified Weaver stance, but let my weak hand index finger creep up in front of the trigger guard and I was gonna hear it.

If you aren't careful, Don will pull out his purse on you....He's got a wicked backswing.

[jshuberg]

DonL is a fantastic instructor, he gave me my NRA instructor training. There are a number of others out there as well though.

If you're interested in defensive carry, you should look into taking the intermediate, advanced, and tactical classes at Bills in Robbinsdale. I've been taking tactical classes a couple times a month for the last couple years. I believe it's the only class in town where holster work is not only allowed, but required. We rotate through malfunction drills, moving targets, shooting on the move, low light, flashlight, cover and concealment, steel targets, etc.

The below is an example of an El Presente drill at Bills. Two rounds center mass, speed reload, and then one in each head from 7 yards. Yes, I know I screwed up my reload, I don't need everyone pointing it out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZAs3DR2TcA

For whatever reason, Bills really doesn't advertise their classes, except on their website. And the information on their website is ancient and not representative of what the class is. Tactical class is held (almost) every Tues, fall through spring.

[rugersol]

The below is an example of an El Presente drill at Bills. Two rounds center mass, speed reload, and then one in each head from 7 yards.

That's neat that they allow that, there.

... but IIRC, El Presidente is turn, draw, 2-2-2, reload, 2-2-2 (no head-shots req'd) ... did I miss a meeting?

... this looks more like a Mozambique?!

[jshuberg]

El Presidente is turn, draw, 2-2-2, reload, 2-2-2 (no head-shots req'd) ... did I miss a meeting? ... this looks more like a Mozambique?!

Yeah, it's sort of a variation of El Presedente with head shots. The class at Bills is primarily for defensive handgun, so some of the drills have been modified slightly. Reloads are also chambered by cycling the slide, rather than hitting the slide lock so as not to train for a specific weapon. Vocalizations and movement during reloads, etc

On a couple occasion we've ran this drill in the dark with flashlights. That was a challenge:
Turn 360
Light on in the FBI position, search and assess.
Light off, move off line of attack.
Light on in the Harries position, 2-2-2 center mass.
Light off, move off line of attack.
Stow light under strong side armpit
Execute speed reload
Move off line of attack
Light on in the Harries position, 1-1-1 head shots
Light off, move off line of attack.
Light on in the FBI position, search and assess.

Tons of fun though!!

[farmerj]

Reloads are also chambered by cycling the slide, rather than hitting the slide lock so as not to train for a specific weapon.

Should be taught that anyway. Using your thumb is a fine motor skill where as cycling the slide is a gross motor skill. You will loose your fine motor skills in an adrenaline dump long before gross.

[rugersol]

On a couple occasion we've ran this drill in the dark with flashlights. That was a challenge:
Turn 360
Light on in the FBI position, search and assess.
Light off, move off line of attack.
Light on in the Harries position, 2-2-2 center mass.
Light off, move off line of attack.
Stow light under strong side armpit
Execute speed reload
Move off line of attack
Light on in the Harries position, 1-1-1 head shots
Light off, move off line of attack.
Light on in the FBI position, search and assess.

Tons of fun though!!

I'd really like to do some "dark house" shooting ... what's the cost? ... prerequisites? (don't wanna waste my time learning to shoot basic IPSC classifiers ... again ) They only do that in Robbinsdale? (I'd very much prefer Circle Pines!)

I'm sure they're fine instructors ... but what's with the pirouette, to start?

Where's Skyrock? ... remember doin' the "dark house" at Burnsville? Hmmm ... I wonder if what's his name'd let me fire up the old Armored Fire league, again ... make it a "dark house" winter league?!

[jshuberg]

Should be taught that anyway. Using your thumb is a fine motor skill where as cycling the slide is a gross motor skill. You will loose your fine motor skills in an adrenaline dump long before gross.

Exactly!! Unfortunately when you see most competitors executing a speed reload, they 'cheat' and hit the slide lock to shave that half second or so.

My screw up above was that I brought the weapon down to 'the bench' to execute the reload , rather than staying up in my workplace and keeping peripheral vision on the threat. Reacquiring sight picture took longer than it should have as a result, and my timing was thrown off. After years of loading my weapon on the bench during range training, this has proven to be the hardest bad habit for me to break.

[jshuberg]

For the record, I have no association with Bills, except I've purchased a membership there, and shoot there twice a week or so. As I said earlier, there are many fine instructors out there, and every one has something unique to offer.

To get into tactical class, you should already be a proficient and safe shooter. Some kind of basic pistol class is required. Then you need to take an intermediate class with Mike Spotts. Mike also offers 1 on 1 and small group instruction in a class he calls 'instinct survival shooting'. I've been meaning to take it, but haven't gotten around to it yet unfortunately.
http://billsgs.com/index.php/training/i ... ors/spotts

After taking the intermediate class, you have to take 6 advanced classes. Each class covers a different shooting skill, and you have to take all 6. Once your finished with the advanced classes, you can start going to tactical. Both the advanced and tactical classes are taught by Clay Brisbin.
http://billsgs.com/index.php/training/i ... rs/brisbin

Tactical classes are also grouped into 6 week rotations, with a 1 week break between. At this point, you can show up any Tues you want to shoot, in any order you want. If we happen to be shooting steel that day you will have to pick up some frangible rounds.

The cost for the intermediate class is $94, advanced and tactical are $45 each.
http://billsgs.com/index.php/training/calendar

If you've already taken equivalent training or are a competitive shooter and are interested in taking a tactical class for some good practice time, call Clay at the North store. I'm sure he'll work with you.

[rugersol]

Unfortunately when you see most competitors executing a speed reload, they 'cheat' and hit the slide lock to shave that half second or so.

Not sure who you're watching ... but most competitors I've seen reload 'fore they're empty ... and if not, the better ones sling-shot it.

At least, I've never personally seen anyone gain a half-second working the slide-lock.

edit: Thanks for the info!

[tman]

The below is an example of an El Presente drill at Bills. Two rounds center mass, speed reload, and then one in each head from 7 yards.

That's neat that they allow that, there.

... but IIRC, El Presidente is turn, draw, 2-2-2, reload, 2-2-2 (no head-shots req'd) ... did I miss a meeting?

... this looks more like a Mozambique?!

Call it whatever the hell you want. Bad guys are using body armor.

Shoot, reassess, repeat if necessary. Don't get stuck in 2+1 all the time.

[rugersol]

The below is an example of an El Presente drill at Bills. Two rounds center mass, speed reload, and then one in each head from 7 yards.

That's neat that they allow that, there.

... but IIRC, El Presidente is turn, draw, 2-2-2, reload, 2-2-2 (no head-shots req'd) ... did I miss a meeting?

... this looks more like a Mozambique?!

Call it whatever the hell you want. Bad guys are using body armor.

Shoot, reassess, repeat if necessary. Don't get stuck in 2+1 all the time.

It's funny ya say that ... 'cause I actually tried googling what I thought might be worthwhile "drill" (at least, fer myself) ... as a 2-to-the-head + 1-to-the-chest. Although, if I was that confident, I'd probly jest go 2-2-2.

Hmmm ... now that I think of it, if it don't already got a name ... 2-2-2 head-shots could probly appropriately be called "the Bofenkamp"!

[jshuberg]

Not sure who you're watching ... but most competitors I've seen reload 'fore they're empty ... and if not, the better ones sling-shot it.

Reloading before you're empty is actually a tactical reload. A speed reload is when you're empty and at slide lock. Sling shotting the slide utilizes fine motor skills, which is great for competition. However, if your training for defensive purposes, you should be overhanding the slide-rack using your palm rather than fingers. Fingers can't be trusted to work right in a lethal force encounter.

[rugersol]

However, if your training for defensive purposes, you should be overhanding the slide-rack using your palm rather than fingers. Fingers can't be trusted to work right in a lethal force encounter.

I do the same thing whether I'm clearing or reloading (if need be) ... at which, if I did that, I'd never clear anything, again.

Besides, vs. anyone else who's got a carry permit (not actually shooting at THEM ... but our survivability vs. an actual bad-guy), I still like my odds.

edit: whomever's teaching this, please explain, this is NOT appropriate on a "common" firing line ... I'm getting tired getting covered 'cause guys can't figure out how to do this, AND keep the muzzle pointed downrange, at the same time

[farmerj]

phorvick and I have a class we teach over the course of a weekend. Includes holster work as well as shooting against a timer.

It includes the following COF:

• Modified PPC
• Modified PPC for Level II
• Georgia SP Semi-Auto Qualification
• US Army MP Qualification
• ICE Handgun Qualification
• Louisanna P.O.S.T Qualification
• LACSO Combat Mod PPC
• FBI Pistol Qualification
• Original Federal Air Marshal Tactical Pistol curse (not a typo)

Pretty good if you can pass ALL the COF by the end of the two days.

ETA: links to COF if available.

[Keith]

Fingers can't be trusted to work right in a lethal force encounter.

I guess I need an alternate method to work the trigger, then?