Facility of your dreams!

[Larry.Y]

I have been reading the posts in the 'Ranges and Clubs' and the 'Training' sections and I noticed that there was a common theme.

That theme was that you all like to train but there are some barriers to conducting solid training at local facilities.

This is a topic that I have been thinking about for many years.

After I was retired from the military I found it very difficult to find a facility that would let me train the way I needed to, ie. no rapid fire, no drawing from a holster, no low light shooting, no moving and shooting, no shooting from alternative positions, etc.

So the question I pose it this:

If you had 10,000 sqft of indoor space what would you put in there? All static live fire lanes, force on force area, video simulations? Who would you let in? What would you want to be able to do in there, airsoft, simmunitions, IDPA, IPSC, low light, movement, room entries? Money is no issue.

[Thunder71]

A bed, an oven, a microwave, a fridge, a freezer and a TV.

Totino's is almost done, get out of my room please.

[yukonjasper]

Good question. You have most of the bases covered. The problem always becomes how do you handle the insurance for a place like you describe. Part of what you describe entails large risk in someone mis-handling a firearm and getting hurt. That is why the static lane ranges are set up the way they are - it minimizes the risk to the operator of the facility. A controlled environment, with strict rules is an easier push to get a permit for and insurance for.

I've heard and read that it is next to impossible to construct a new facility because of all the red tape (environmental, zoning, etc.) and the insurance liablity issues.

[Paul]

Larry,

I understand you are in the process of constructing your own indoor range. What are you planning to offer?

[rugersol]

Money is no issue.

STEEL!!!

Steel is highly underrated! ... and expensive!

#1 reason I don't go to many steel-challenge matches? ... 4 - 5 courses with the exact same 6 targets ... and a "stop" plate ... boooooooring!

#1 reason I like to shoot SASS? ... 6 courses with a few different targets ... no "stop" plate ... and "some" movement.

#1 reason I like to shoot USPSA? ... moving targets, "hot" movement (vs. SASS) ... and (compared to the others) "unlimited" course design

#1 reason I don't like USPSA? ... pastings targets and resetting the movers takes FOREVER!

Figure out how to arrange 10 - 20 steel targets, per course ... vary the targets size and shape, somewhat ... speed-up reset of any activators/movers ... and provide a facility where the whole works can stay "on the range" day to day, week to week, month to month (almost no set-up or take-down) ... and I'd guess ya'd have one of the country's premier "shooting parks"!

As to who can shoot? ... keep one area 'bout 20ft wide, reinforced concrete on both sides ... set it up so they shoot on one side, and hafta reload as they move to the other, and shoot there ... then back again ... fer 5 - 6 mags. If they can do it without pointing the muzzle past 75° of straight downrange, they can shoot! If not, they pack it up, and wait at least a week, to try again!

Oh ya, and get some glow-in-the-dark paint, paint all the steel, and turn out the lights!

[yukonjasper]

Yowzers, You are actually setting up a new range? That is fantastic. Please tell me it isn't going to be in Corcoran or Stacy...............

I'd be interested in knowing more about the hurdles you have encountered along the way. Especially getting feedback on wether my reading about the zoning and insurance nightmares are accurate.

I hope you are successful.

[OldmanFCSA]

IF that 10,000 sq ft is 3 ft wide by 3000 ft long with the other 1000 sq ft split up on either end for target pit and a concrete shooting bench, I'm interested !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

However, I will not have this option, so a combination of all items listed above. Your business plan will determine your needs and hopefully our needs will fit in there somehow.

[westberg]

10,000 sq ft is not large enough.

[photogpat]

Awful lot of vacant commercial real estate in industrial parks out there, warehouse space, etc...a guy who could put it all together with enough financial backing to do it right could make out well.......just saying....

[Jackpine Savage]

Money is no issue.

STEEL!!!

Bill Rogers has a nice steel target system down in Georgia that looks like fun.

[TC95GT]

Awful lot of vacant commercial real estate in industrial parks out there, warehouse space, etc...a guy who could put it all together with enough financial backing to do it right could make out well.......just saying....

Looks like it is already happening in retail spaces.

From an article in TheWall Street Journal

Sobered by store closings and the rise of online shopping, owners of U.S. shopping centers are filling space and drawing visitors by turning to unusual tenants like gun ranges and go-cart tracks.

Full Article

[dsm2nr]

A public 360* shoot house would be amazing. Of course, requiring individuals to take a qualification course is a must. Maybe a requal. every 6 months to a year. Having it setup for everything you mentioned you cannot do at a conventional range. And having not all of it the interior of a building would be cool, so you could drive a vehicle in to a simulated ambush with simmunitions. That area might also double as a long range for marksmanship classes.

Anyway, just fantasy land I'm dreaming of.

[goett047]

There's a vacant ice rink on university in fridley...group buy?

[Larry.Y]

Larry,

I understand you are in the process of constructing your own indoor range. What are you planning to offer?

I am working on a facility, but before I taint all of this brilliance with my "knuckle dragging" thoughts I want to hear from you all.

A public 360* shoot house would be amazing. Of course, requiring individuals to take a qualification course is a must. Maybe a requal. every 6 months to a year. Having it setup for everything you mentioned you cannot do at a conventional range. And having not all of it the interior of a building would be cool, so you could drive a vehicle in to a simulated ambush with simmunitions. That area might also double as a long range for marksmanship classes.

Anyway, just fantasy land I'm dreaming of.

Right now, if you had access to a 360 shoot house as an individual that has probably not had any CQB training how would you use it? If you had 2 hrs in a shoot house alone what drills would you run, how would you set up scenarios, what type of guns would you use (handguns, rifles, shotguns)?


STEEL

Why steel? What do you like about steel courses? The satisfying slap of metal on metal? The fact that you don't have to be that accurate (a hit to the middle or edge has the same result)? The rapid resetting / more reps less time?

10,000 sq ft is not large enough.

Not large enough for what? To shoot? To have effective training? To have your dream facility?

BTW I agree, I did the basic calculations and I would need approximately 3 square miles to have my dream facility (the offensive driving course takes up space, as does the dropzone).

IF that 10,000 sq ft is 3 ft wide by 3000 ft long with the other 1000 sq ft split up on either end for target pit and a concrete shooting bench, I'm interested !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

However, I will not have this option, so a combination of all items listed above. Your business plan will determine your needs and hopefully our needs will fit in there somehow.

As interesting as that layout would be I disagree on the usefulness. A setup like this would take out the most interesting part of long range shooting, atmospherics.

Also, I believe that a successful business plan comes FROM the prospective clients it is not imposed ON the prospective clients.

Thank you all, I appreciate all of the different view points.

[dsm2nr]

Right now, if you had access to a 360 shoot house as an individual that has probably not had any CQB training how would you use it? If you had 2 hrs in a shoot house alone what drills would you run, how would you set up scenarios, what type of guns would you use (handguns, rifles, shotguns)?

I would run create an environment that is within the realm of what I may encounter. Setup a couple bedrooms, living room (obviously old crappy furniture), maybe a car or two made out of a few giant cardboard boxes. I would setup the targets in various positions for what I may see waking up in the middle of the night and run through the course as such. Lay on the bed, get up, grab my handgun from my safe on the nightstand and clear room by room. Maybe have a stereo blaring a crying baby or loud music and a fog machine to distract me. I would use a handgun for this course. But use rifle for courses mentioned below.

I would love to have my wife join me for anything I would do there; as she is my best friend, likes guns and would be the one with me helping to protect my son if such a situation occurred. I've gotten her to feel comfortable moving and shooting. But I have yet to try shooting, moving and communicating all at once with both of us shooting. I can imagine she will get frustrated, but it's a necessary part [in my mind] for training.

I also would setup an entry course for **** Hits The Fan training. If I ever had to leave my house in this situation to find food or what ever I may need, practice is essential. If this shoothouse included the outside of buildings to have automated targets pop up at me, PERFECT! Of course not all targets would be bad guys, target recognition is also crucial.

And last but not least..... A fun day with ZOMBIE targets! If you couldn't make enough money from regular memberships, this would be your meal ticket. Tons of people already show up for Outbreak Omega, I'm sure a lot of people would show up (given decent advertising) for an inside zombie shoot.

All that being said, clean air is important to me. I go to Bill's just to shoot for fun sometimes and every time I go there after ~100 rounds of .223 the range gets hazy. Last time I was there I let a couple people test out my AR15 and the total round count was 280. Plus ~400 handgun rounds and whoever else was in the range with us. The haze was incredibly bad and upon leaving I was sucking snot from my nose and spitting out black crap for an hour. I'm not sure what it would take for filtration, but it would have to be done. Even if it was just giant bullet trapped windows getting opened.

Simmunitions would also make a great training tool for any of the courses. To have someone coming at you instead of static targets I can imagine is very different.

Sorry if this post seems like rambings, it's because it is.