Has anyone used Defensive Egde SLR15 for training?

[hammAR]

I will try to go forth and sin no more. I must've fallen in with evil compatriots who have surely waylaid me with their Thread drifting ways

You really need to discuss tactics and form with your instructor as they obviously let you down,
I would suggest a refresher or immersion class and I know ttousi has one coming up..........................

[ttousi]

I would suggest a refresher or immersion class and I know ttousi has one coming up..........................

or maybe it's a refresher immersion course

[hammAR]

I would suggest a refresher or immersion class and I know ttousi has one coming up..........................

or maybe it's a refresher immersion course

I figured that we could waterboard him............................

[cobb]

There are a number of folks on this Forum that offer classes for people of varying skills. Just check in the Training and Other Events section and send notes to the instructor/organizer and get a feel for them etc.

Also look for links in signature lines, like phorvick has. You can snoop around their web sites and see what they offer, scheduled or not.

[yukonjasper]

Hmmmmm seems I've used bad form. I appologize, it wasn't my intention to do any promoting for these guys, it was really an innocent question.

How does one get feedback on any of the service providers if its taboo to bring up the name or drop a link so those commenting know what your talking about. I'm not trying to cause trouble, but I am also hoping that I can get some decent information from this community.

Let me know what you think. Sorry for touching off such controversy. Another newbie steps in it..................

[cobb]

Hmmmmm seems I've used bad form. I appologize, it wasn't my intention to do any promoting for these guys, it was really an innocent question.

How does one get feedback on any of the service providers if its taboo to bring up the name or drop a link so those commenting know what your talking about. I'm not trying to cause trouble, but I am also hoping that I can get some decent information from this community.

Let me know what you think. Sorry for touching off such controversy. Another newbie steps in it..................

Well, I'm usually the slow one here, so I will ask.

What did you do in bad form if you were just asking questions? You are not causing any trouble in my eyes, but now there are some here that.................

Anyway, welcome and do please ask questions. As far as to those you ask about, I have little knowledge of them, maybe someone here can fill us both in.

[Fast351]

I've read negative things about some of their business practices. I haven't taken a class, but I wouldn't recommend them, based on that.

Apparently "reading things" about companies' business practices makes you an expert on that business.

I on the other hand have taken quite a few classes from Defensive Edge. I have nothing but positive things to say about them, but in order to let the witty banter completely unrelated to the original topic continue, I'll be happy to answer any questions for the original poster through PM while others offer you third hand opinions.

[hammAR]

Hmmmmm seems I've used bad form. I appologize, it wasn't my intention to do any promoting for these guys, it was really an innocent question.

How does one get feedback on any of the service providers if its taboo to bring up the name or drop a link so those commenting know what your talking about. I'm not trying to cause trouble, but I am also hoping that I can get some decent information from this community.

Let me know what you think. Sorry for touching off such controversy. Another newbie steps in it..................

Yukonjasper..................You did nothing wrong and need not apologize, however, apparently I did.

In another thread that has disappeared or been edited/censored, I posted and straight up asked

This is only your third post, but each time you refer to and link to Sullys organization. Curious as to why?

. I did so because we get a few "promoters" and "trolls" on the board. I was not suggesting that you were, but was curious as to the links and asked. So you did not step on it, and I clearly started the controversy, not you.......listen to cobb..............and don't get too close to me as you will get banned on other sites......

SO anyhow, welcome to the wild west, ask all the questions that you want, I suggest that you take Fast351 up on his offer, however, I personally would like to see the questions and answers too, as I am also curious about Defensive Edge...........

[JohnC]

I put a email into DE one month ago inquiring about a upcoming class. Never heard back from them. I'm sure they don't care but I'll take my business elsewhere. If they can't answer an email from a inquiring future client, my guess is they operate in a fashion unbecoming of a good company.

[princewally]

I've read negative things about some of their business practices. I haven't taken a class, but I wouldn't recommend them, based on that.

Apparently "reading things" about companies' business practices makes you an expert on that business.

Not in my opinion, but thanks for the vote of confidence.

I didn't say I was an expert. I thought it was fairly clear that I had only read about their practices and hadn't taken a class. Their instruction may be top-notch, but I still wouldn't recommend them, based on some of their business practices. When a company uses decidedly deceptive business practices, I choose to not give them my money, and I'm more than willing to share that information.

Hmm, did I say I was an 'expert' there, either? Nope.

[princewally]

I'll be happy to answer any questions for the original poster through PM while others offer you third hand opinions.

Personally, I'd rather hear about the company's instruction. I think both praise and criticism should be public, so people can make informed decisions.

[Fast351]

I've read negative things about some of their business practices. I haven't taken a class, but I wouldn't recommend them, based on that.

Apparently "reading things" about companies' business practices makes you an expert on that business.

Not in my opinion, but thanks for the vote of confidence.

I find it interesting that the first response in this thread is to link to a post by a forum administrator that has a history of grinding axes in public, and judging by the childish use of the oh so clever phrase "Deceptive Edge" based on the actions of one student at Defensive Edge that apparently stepped slightly over the line. It then looks like the regulars of said forum fall lock-step into line behind "The Man" slamming Defensive Edge's business practices as deceptive based on the actions of what, one individual who is not associated with Defensive Edge? I don't know what the moderators problem is at that board, but perhaps he can't stand the fact that he has competition in the training arena. Maybe that's why you've posted this warm and fuzzy attitude as well.

I didn't say I was an expert. I thought it was fairly clear that I had only read about their practices and hadn't taken a class. Their instruction may be top-notch, but I still wouldn't recommend them, based on some of their business practices. When a company uses decidedly deceptive business practices, I choose to not give them my money, and I'm more than willing to share that information.

Again, I'm curious what those "deceptive business practices" are. Are you basing that on the "facts" presented by that forum admin? You yourself admit not ever taking any classes from Defensive Edge. I'm curious how you know about their business practices since you seem to have no business relationship with them. If you choose to not give a business your money based on third hand information, that's fine. I have problems with slamming a business in public based on that third hand knowledge. Fortunately I think most intelligent people will see it for what it is.

Personally, I'd rather hear about the company's instruction. I think both praise and criticism should be public, so people can make informed decisions.

It sure doesn't sound like it to me. It seems you more than have your mind made up about Defensive Edge.

I have taken this conversation to PM with the original poster SPECIFICALLY because of the attitude that most TCC "faithful" take when Defensive Edge is mentioned. I don't need the aggrevation of being called a shill for a company simply because I'm a satisfied customer.

If you're truly interested in knowing about the training classes Defensive Edge offers from the perspective from a satisfied customer, you can feel free to PM me and I'll happily answer any questions, or you could head over to the forum that Defensive Edge maintains on their website, and ask your questions there. Unlike at some forums where the admin actively engages in forum pissing contests, the bunch over there is mostly friendly and threads that attempt to stir the pot in a similar fashion are frowned upon.

I'm done discussing this in public, feel free to contact me through PM if you have questions or comments.

[princewally]

If you're truly interested in knowing about the training classes Defensive Edge offers from the perspective from a satisfied customer....

I snipped all of the BS, name-calling, and defensiveness. I also snipped my snark-filled response. I'm not interested in a petty flame war.

I, like I said, am interested. I would love to see an actual review of their course from an actual customer. I've never said otherwise. The only thing I did was post a link to the one place I know that has addressed DE publicly. Somehow, mentioning a previous discussion makes me a bad person. That's...interesting. Based on their reputation so far-the only thing I have to go on-I wouldn't give them my money.

I think a company's reputation should be public. Both the good and the bad. Whispering the good when others shout about the bad isn't fair to a company either. If you've got good things to say about the company, say them. If you can't say them in public, they can't be that good.

[Andrew Rothman]

In a word, ********.

Shills for "that company" have repeatedly played the part of people asking for information in order to promote their classes. It was not "slightly over the line" for that weasel to post once, giving a glowing review of a DE class, then post several months later, saying that he had never taken a class there but had heard great things. That's called lying, and that's deceptive.

On AR15.com, the Sullyites own the Minnesota forum and ruthlessly delete any mention of any "competition." It's not one disciple, it's many, and it's not one incident, but many repeated ones.

I don't need to take a class there to know that I don't want to.

Oh, and as for the deleted posts? That was me. It is not appropriate to respond to an instructor's class posting by posting untruths about it and suggesting the competition.

Any questions, feel free to PM or take it up in Suggestions and Support.

I find it interesting that the first response in this thread is to link to a post by a forum administrator that has a history of grinding axes in public, and judging by the childish use of the oh so clever phrase "Deceptive Edge" based on the actions of one student at Defensive Edge that apparently stepped slightly over the line. It then looks like the regulars of said forum fall lock-step into line behind "The Man" slamming Defensive Edge's business practices as deceptive based on the actions of what, one individual who is not associated with Defensive Edge?

[Einthoven's Triangle]

People who dismiss certain training vendors with no hands experience with the class should not really have a valid input as otherwise it heresay. But, then again we all have a distal exit of the alimentary canal so we get an opion by default. Some vendors ban people cause well this their priviledge as a board admin, in a broader sense they are problem by no allowing a reasonable discuss of the virtues of each vendor.

Most of the vendors did not exist before the passage of the MPPA, now that is a question to ask a potential vendor. So, most are new kids on the block. And, of course some will boast a string of alphabet soup of BS with respect to being associated with such and such. I mean most of the vendors do not have access to ranges where live drawing of guns is allowed, or you have travel to an out door range to get that practice. There is give to get! It is up to the consumer to make an informed choice on his/her training dollars are spent. As ammo is up, travel costs money, and your time is valuable. We are fortunate that some people ie Bills host John Farnum last winter, and they had Chuck Taylor too. Gabe Saurez has had classes up north, and John Farnum has held classes out in the Fergus Falls area / Valley City ND area. There has been courses taught under the LFI programs taught locally. But, DE is hosting Rob Pincus this May, and John Farnum is coming the week before to Elk River (not sure if the class is going to be held at the Sherburne County Sheriff's Range?

What ever you polarized posters want to say is fine as you have your opinions, but unless they are based your hands on experience it sure muddies the waters for the prospective student of any vendor! Shoppping for training out to be like buying a car......visit the vendor and get a sense hands on! Not relying on some internet BS........Make a shopping list then decide what your goals are and they are consistent with that vendor getting your training dollars and your ammo budget expenditure.