Why do you need to practice and get more training?

[farmerj]

Even as an instructor, event coordinator for Tactifun and concerned citizen. Learning this REALLY made a difference.
If the bad guys are out practicing 2-3 times MORE than law enforcement, why aren't YOU?

http://www.calgunlaws.com/article-480.html

[Jackpine Savage]

I first heard that yesterday in John Caile's class at Tactifun. That is an amazing statistic. Definitely a reason to practice and improve ones skills.

[Pinnacle]

There is a lot more to the story as well.

CA Gangmembers #1 most loaned books in the prison libraries are ANATOMY BOOKS - they train constantly in hand to hand tactics and more and more of the gang members are joning the military and bringing their training back with them to the other homies.

If you are going to carry a gun - you better know not only how to operate it - but how to use it - and be willing to do so in the event of the "O-Poop" moment. I suggest that you all start to study anatomy and take a class from a qualified instructor that teaches actual "Gun Fu" for lack of a better term.

Lets remember why we carry - To protect ourselves and our families first - all others come last

If you have to shoot - you must and I mean must be willing and ABLE to efficiently and effectively end the fight in the most expeditious manner possible. Lets hope that it never comes to that. Criminals dont hesitate but as good people we will because it is not in us to harm people and we have been conditioned to be "nice" We as armed citizens need to learn that it is OK to not be nice and to turn fear into effective aggression.

In a fight for your life - you have to raise the stakes so high that your opponent doesn't want to play any more.... The simple presence of a gun is a great step and may do the trick - but - Gun Fu isa good skill to have in the toolbox.

Go to Tactifun - Take a Holster Class from DonL - Go to Front Sight or Gunsite - or Thunder Ranch if you can.

Carrying a gun is one thing - fighting with it is another matter alltogether.

[Einthoven's Triangle]

Cut the motor or the pump.....pretty much stops aggression, or better yet if they do not have an airway........

[Pinnacle]

Cut the motor or the pump.....pretty much stops aggression, or better yet if they do not have an airway........

OK This is just food for thought

If you are in a fight and you deliver 2rapid+perfect COM Shots and Mr.Badass just keeps on coming or starts delivering bullets of his or her own - what now? Hollywood Shot? Keep up the COM hits?

When we use a handgun - it is a marginal tool for SD - we have to count on bleed out (extreme hypovolemia) OR a cut in the CNS pathways (spine/medulla) which is wishful thinking with the default level of training and adding stress to the situation.

A person can still attack for quite some time after being hit in the pumphouse and the head is a very hard target to hit even under range conditions where there is NO stress.

You have to learn to deal with the Failure to stop situation. There are a couple of things that can help

1. Use enough Gun
2. Use that gun well
3. MOVE
4. Pray
5. Learn to deal with any problems that may arise with your tool of chice or carry a revolver.

[Einthoven's Triangle]

No one is perfect, and it conjecture for most what they will do or not do under stress. But, it well proven that people will default to their level of training. So, you have to train how you fight. Shooting to stop aggression is a dynamic situation. Aggressors might have chemically enhanced bodies! PCP, Meth, cocaine, and ETOH are ones that come to mind! That is why a handgun is really only means to fight your way to a long gun! But, that is not reality is it. You have fight with what is at hand.

[Pinnacle]

No one is perfect, and it conjecture for most what they will do or not do under stress. But, it well proven that people will default to their level of training. So, you have to train how you fight. Shooting to stop aggression is a dynamic situation. Aggressors might have chemically enhanced bodies! PCP, Meth, cocaine, and ETOH are ones that come to mind! That is why a handgun is really only means to fight your way to a long gun! But, that is not reality is it. You have fight with what is at hand.

+1

Just have a plan....

[Fast351]

Cut the motor or the pump.....pretty much stops aggression, or better yet if they do not have an airway........

OK This is just food for thought

If you are in a fight and you deliver 2rapid+perfect COM Shots and Mr.Badass just keeps on coming or starts delivering bullets of his or her own - what now? Hollywood Shot? Keep up the COM hits?

This is one of the reasons why at least two of the instructors I've taken advanced pistol handling classes from train to place a more random number of shots on target every time you engage. "Place two or three hits on target" or "give me a handful of rounds COM" is far more useful of a training tool than "Two to the body, one to the head"

As mentioned, head shots on moving targets are almost impossible. Getting in the habit of always deploying two rounds when engaging a target is a bad idea, I'll even go so far as to say dangerous in a real world situation. When you're training, this thought should be going through your head "I am shooting to stop, OK the threat is stopped, I can stop shooting now". It's OK to sometimes shoot a target only twice (or even just once) but you should regularly practice 3-8 rounds on target just so your mind gets trained to the fact that two shots may not resolve the threat.

On that same topic, *IF* you're not getting the hits, SLOW DOWN, and get the hits. If you're shooting faster than you're capable of, and missing or getting ineffective hits, you are overconfident of your skills. Repeating those types of shots will not make you a better shooter and you will not eventually get those hits. Slow down, get the hits, speed will come with time.

[farmerj]

I shoot for slide lock....

I cannot nor have I ever been good at round counting.

I start to practice, I shoot till I am out of mags or the slide locks back. And I have a LOT of loaded Mags.

[IDPA Shooter]

Cut the motor or the pump.....pretty much stops aggression, or better yet if they do not have an airway........

OK This is just food for thought

If you are in a fight and you deliver 2rapid+perfect COM Shots and Mr.Badass just keeps on coming or starts delivering bullets of his or her own - what now? Hollywood Shot? Keep up the COM hits?

This is one of the reasons why at least two of the instructors I've taken advanced pistol handling classes from train to place a more random number of shots on target every time you engage. "Place two or three hits on target" or "give me a handful of rounds COM" is far more useful of a training tool than "Two to the body, one to the head"

As mentioned, head shots on moving targets are almost impossible. Getting in the habit of always deploying two rounds when engaging a target is a bad idea, I'll even go so far as to say dangerous in a real world situation. When you're training, this thought should be going through your head "I am shooting to stop, OK the threat is stopped, I can stop shooting now". It's OK to sometimes shoot a target only twice (or even just once) but you should regularly practice 3-8 rounds on target just so your mind gets trained to the fact that two shots may not resolve the threat.

On that same topic, *IF* you're not getting the hits, SLOW DOWN, and get the hits. If you're shooting faster than you're capable of, and missing or getting ineffective hits, you are overconfident of your skills. Repeating those types of shots will not make you a better shooter and you will not eventually get those hits. Slow down, get the hits, speed will come with time.

+1

Farnam teaches move, don't stand where your were, but then stop and engage with no more than 4 rounds, then move again, stop and repeat as necessary. I've seen lots of people try to shoot while moving very slowly. I'm convinced Farnam is correct. Stop and engage with aimed shots, really fast misses just cause liability.

I would only shoot until the threat is stopped, but I would zipper them up the body, again the Ayoob and Farnam recommended technique. I've missed too many head shots on IDPA targets that were not moving to think I could reliably take a head shot under extreme stress on a moving target, plus the head has some really hard bones, with teeth being the hardest substance in the body. Of course it is all what I plan I will do, my biggest wish being I never have to find out what I will do

[farmerj]

Any chance we could sticky the links to the top.

It would seem a pretty good topic to not let it get buried